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Tidying up offerings
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Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 06, 2010, 13:07
revnox wrote:
faerygirl wrote:
revnox wrote:
"Christianity was forced on thousands and thousands of people the world over, not many of them over-the-moon about it either. But when its join us or get burned, most people suddenly find light in Jesus..."

I think we can safely say most formal religions and ideologies have been responsible for rather atrocious impositions.
In fact is this not what we are discussing in the thread?
Impositions whether they be ideological, religious or other wise and an individuals right to freedom of choice.

Ah yes, the freedom of choice. Tell that to the South american, Australians, Europeans and Africans who were allowed their freedom to remain "Pagan"

Burning of "witches" (or anyone who was seen enjoying nature rather than going to church)
Destroying of native "idols" and temples
Building churches on British SCs/ Temples all over the world (although the Muslims did a huge amount of this too, but lets not forget that Christianity and Islam are the same religion for most of their writings and prophets)

lovely freedom of choice...

I think you are a little confused, Australians and Africans Pagan?
burning of witches exclusively Christian, no way the indigenous people of Australia dealt very harshly with witches (or those they believed to have used witch craft as do many Africans still to this day.
your analysis seems very naive. the destruction of native idols and temples goes on to this day all over the world by most religions if not all!
As for saying that Muslims and Christians are the same this is downright silly! Muslims , Christians and Jews are people of the book meaning they are Abrahamic religions and sorry their idea of prophetic lineage is very different as is their writings.

freedom of choice I applaud but lets also choose reality not some faery tale regarding pre-christian noble savages.

Ah yes, my lack of bullet points confused you. Glad you think the Christianisation of the globe is a faery tale

From the Belize website ;
"1724 The Spanish Crown abolishes the system of encomienda , which had given Spanish land barons the right to forced Maya labour, as long as they agreed to convert the Maya to Christianity."

From BBC news showing Native Americans forced into Christian schools;
" For more than 40 years, in what is widely agreed to be one of the most shameful chapters of Canada's history, indigenous children were forcibly placed in the schools jointly run by the Canadian government and the Roman Catholic, Anglican and United Churches. They tried to indoctrinate the children in Christianity and erase their native culture. "

From Wiki regarding Christians in India
"The natives of Goa, most of them Hindus were subjected to severe torture and oppression by the zealous Portuguese rulers and missionaries during the conversion to Christianity"

"Charlemagne committed the Massacre of Verden because he forced the Saxons to convert to Christianity, but the Saxons returned to Paganism. He killed 3500 Saxons."

A lovely quote from Wiki
"Pope Innocent III, who denounced forced conversions, pronounced in 1201 that even if torture and intimidation had been employed in receiving the sacrament, one nevertheless:

...does receive the impress of Christianity and may be forced to observe the Christian Faith as one who expressed a conditional willingness though, absolutely speaking, he was unwilling. ... [For] the grace of Baptism had been received, and they had been anointed with the sacred oil, and had participated in the body of the Lord, they might properly be forced to hold to the faith which they had accepted perforce, lest the name of the Lord be blasphemed, and lest they hold in contempt and consider vile the faith they had joined"

In reference to NAtive Americans from "The History of Christianity"
"In the first few decades since 1492, it was thought that Indians did not have souls because they were "animals" in human form. Therefore, it was believed they could be hunted down like animals, which they were. It was only in 1530 CE that the Pope declared that the Indians were human. Having established their humanity, it was decided that they must be inducted into Christianity. As the Indians were unwilling, this was accomplished by force"

From The Dark Side of Christian History, by Helen Ellerbe
"When Columbus landed in America in 1492, he mistook it for India and called the native inhabitants "Indians." It was his avowed aim to
"convert the heathen Indians to our Holy Faith" that warranted the enslaving and exporting of thousands of Native Americans. That such treatment resulted in complete genocide did not matter as much as that these natives had been given the opportunity of everlasting life through their exposure to Christianity. The same sort of thinking also gave Westerners license to rape women."

From Relación de las cosas de Yucatán "The Relating of Yucatan Things" by Fray Diego de Landa
"Zumarraga, the first bishop of Mexico, is known for sending the contents of the Mayans' Texcoco Library up in flames - because they were "the Devil's work". In 1531, this Christian bishop wrote how he had personally destroyed 500 temples and 20,000 Mayan idols.
In 1562, bishop Diego de Landa, burnt down Yucatan's grand library."

Enough "Faery Tales" or shall I go on???
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