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dhajjieboy
913 posts

Re: Kill them!
May 23, 2017, 21:31
thesweetcheat wrote:
You are funny. You know Toni didn't say that.

You are the only person here who is suggesting a conflagration of antique ivory. The 2015 Tory manifesto committed to pressing for "a total ban on ivory sales". So no-one is coming to smash your Beethoven piano, but you wouldn't be able to sell it - "ivory sales" not ivory ownership. The point being quite obviously that it's market value that drives the ongoing slaughter.

Like everyone else, you can check and see that the same commitment is not in the 2017 Tory manifesto.

Like everyone else, you can check the fact that the previous UK government did not deliver on implementing its pledge, so comments about it already being implemented, copied here by Sanctuary from elsewhere, are clearly incorrect.

But you know all that, you're just throwing stuff in to have an argument for the sake it.


I'm not particularly assed about this issue as regards cheap points scoring and finger pointing during your election cycle...
Bigger issues to deal with.

The fact is, there are already laws in place in the U.K. and the E.U. regarding these things:

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Identifying-Antique-Ivory-Facts-Information-/10000000005958252/g.html

•According to UK and EU laws in conjunction with CITES(Convention International Trade in Endangered Spescies) The trade in Ivory is banned out right,this means that the sale,transport,import export etc is strictly prohibited,the only exception is to antique specimens.
•For an Ivory to be classified as an antique specimen it must predate 1.6.1947.
•The ivory must be in a worked form,this means all unworked ivory,off cuts,tusks,teeth etc are prohibited to be exported,imported or sold. One thing with this rule is that you could have a 200 year old tusk which you can prove is 200 years old,but you will not be permitted to sell it,get it certificated,imported or exported.However you would still be legally allowed to own it and admire it,but never ever sell it.

•The ivory must be in its original worked form,this basically means that if your item has been repaired,and the repairs contain ivory,you need to be certain that the ivory/repair is pre ban. A common misconception here lies with people believing that old ivory can be re worked,it cant!!! if you attempted to carve a piece of ivory,even if you knew it was 100 years old,you would be breaking the law exactly the same as someone carving a modern tusk..
•As the UK is part of the EU,you are perfectly entitled to transport antique ivory in and out of any EU destination(to another EU destination),i think this stems from the fact that on paper we are all one state,so in theory taking your ivory from the UK to France for example is no different to taking your Ivory from Wales to Scotland,however it is also worth noting that although under EU law this is allowed,certain EU counties take a dim view on this and have been known to disregard the ruling and class an importation in the same way as they would from a none EU country,which typically ends up with confiscation and the item being destroyed(for example it has been known in Germany for them to remove the ivory keys from a piano !!!),another point worth mentioning is that the laws change frequently and drastically,so what you were allowed to do today,may not be what you are allowed to do tomorrow!!!so it is always beneficial as with all legal issues to double check that everything is the same as the last time.

•Ivory can be exported and imported providing it is antique and you apply for the relevant import and export permits from CITES,these are costly and time consuming,however if you intend to export or import Ivory be warned,doing so without permits is no different to being caught importing 100 elephant tusks illegally,it is a serious offence,dont do it.

I think it's a shame that the left itself doesn't have it's own 'Manifesto' for critical dissection.
Either way....These laws already exist regardless of the next election.
They already seem quite reasonable to me. Hardly worth harping on about as far as the next election.
As I said...it's Asia that will ultimately see the last living Elephant and Rhino off.
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