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Edited Apr 28, 2017, 15:17

Re: Another Election

Apr 28, 2017, 15:10

thesweetcheat wrote:

Yet again you have avoided the question, Tory voters always seem reluctant to identify which parts of the Tory manifesto they are voting for particularly. Jshell was similarly reluctant elsewhere in this thread.

I have made clear elsewhere in this thread why I think weveryone are better in Europe http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/forum/?thread=75990&message=950933

I also think it's clear from that answer why I think we are less likely to achieve that outside the EU with a Tory government.

Not sure which question I've avoided tsc but, for the record, I'm voting for Theresa May not the Tories. You can interpreted that as being a contradiction in terms if you want but I can see no other party leader capable of taking us through the Brexit negotiations other than her. In all other elections I'll be voting according to my conscience.

You’ve said elsewhere that people like me think the forthcoming election is, “...about the EU, it isn't. A vote for the Tories is anything but a vote for "the people" or for "taking back control". But actually it is about taking back control because whether we vote Conservative or Labour or Rabbit Pie in the election we will still be leaving the EU, and we will be taking back control; the only difference will be how we do it. We’re not going to agree on whether exiting the EU is a good thing or a bad thing, nor how the exit should or will be handled, we can only form considered opinions on what might happen and act on those. Sadly, as I’ve said elsewhere on this thread (21 April), people tend to, “...form opinions on what they want to believe rather than what the facts are actually telling them.” and that’s both a dangerous and a somewhat deceitful direction of travel.

For example, you stated in your post here that you, “...voted remain because [you] strongly believe that a united Europe will help prevent another war, not necessarily soon but some day.” You don’t actually say where you believe this war is going to take place nor when, nor how a ‘united’ EU would be able to prevent it. A ‘united’ EU was unable to prevent the 1991-2001 Yugoslav Wars during which an estimated 140,000 people lost their lives (and that was only sixteen ago). The EU, for years, allowed the Jungle Camp at Calais to go un-policed and, with the exception of NGOs, unattended. We have little or no idea how many children and young people have been trafficked as a result of that neglect into slavery and/or the sex industry. I’d like to know what is so good about the EU in that respect. The EU is a commercial trading block with federalist objectives. Its expansionist agenda in the east of Europe is what is so irritating the Russians and, far from ‘helping prevent another war', it is more likely to cause one in that part of the world.

Further down in your post you say, “I voted remain because I believe that we should have close ties with countries that share values of tolerance and that uphold human rights, rather than looking to places like Saudi Arabia as trading partners.” It’s the ‘believe’ word again. Anyone can use it, for anything, but it’s only a belief not a fact, and we’re talking politics here not religion. You go on in the same post to name Saudi Arabia as the bad boys we shouldn't be trading with (and I’m 100% with you on that by the way) but choose not to mention countries like Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand etc who we are presently not free to independently trade with but who, non-the-less, share our values of tolerance and human rights.

One last point. You say in your post, “I voted remain because I trusted the EU to do a better job of distributing the money it takes from member states than our government will. Wales and Cornwall have a shock coming.” With the exception of Truro the people of Cornwall voted to leave. They did so because they do want to take back control – and they will have a far better chance of doing that by electing their own representatives to Parliament rather than relying on Brussels for hand-outs.

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Re: Another Election (thesweetcheat)

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