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Moon Cat
9577 posts

Edited Oct 03, 2008, 18:29
Re: VP debates
Oct 03, 2008, 17:54
grufty jim wrote:
I don't see where you're coming from on any of this, handofdave. I really don't. But the majority of folks agree with you, so that just means I'm in what appears to be my default position... on the extreme fringe. I dare not even begin to comment upon your responses to my 'Vote Obama' thread as it would just create far too oppositional an atmosphere for no gain. You've characterised my views as selfish, arrogant and egocentric which suggests we've hit a wall.

And just to show exactly how far I am from you, or indeed from "general wisdom" as you put it...

handofdave wrote:
General wisdom sez Biden won it... I should hope so!


I watched the Vice-Presidential debate and I just have no idea how anyone -- you, or General Wisdom -- can make that statement. I watched it, shocked at how dire Biden was. I came to the conclusion that the Democrats are screwed. A politician with Biden's experience should have comprehensively destroyed Palin in a live debate. He should have been capable of highlighting her complete lack of qualifications to run the United States (a job she might be called upon to do sooner than any of us would like). Instead he smiled and grinned as she spun folksy stories and evaded almost every single question.

Worse, he joined in with his own folksy stories. Instead of demonstrating how much more qualified he was for the position, he (i.e. Democratic strategists) decided to engage Palin on her terms. It was a car-wreck of a performance. Anything short of a complete demolition of Palin (who we've all seen interviewed) would have been a defeat for Biden. That it's a close call in any sense can only be seen as a massive coup for the Republicans.

How the debate moderator allowed Palin to get away with failing to answer a single question, I'll never know. But that Biden allowed it to pass without comment -- and indeed joined in -- is unforgivable.

I'm not American, but having lived in Texas and in the midwest, I'm pretty certain that Palin's performance in that debate will have played very well in much of America.

God bless America? God help us all more like.


Oh, and well done to Biden for backtracking on his principled stance regarding "clean coal". I watched the primaries, I heard him stand up and state -- correctly -- that the technology is a scam. Now it's time for him to back a party line that wants to campaign on it... a technology guaranteed to exascerbate the effects of Climate Change... and he falls into place like a good little corporate party drone.

And let's not forget; Climate Change is not an American issue. It's a global issue. As is the fact that the USA is the world's largest manufacturer and exporter of weapons (including to nations that the US government itself defines as guilty of massive human rights abuses). Obama has no plans to change that. He'll continue selling guns to (almost) any dictator who wants to murder some of their own people.

Palin needs to be opposed. I stand by that. But Obama is a man who will continue to fuck up this planet with nonsense environmental policies (biofuels, clean coal, nuclear) all the while exporting weapons to further fuel the resource wars that will directly result from those environmental policies (on top of all the other wars we've already got going).

And you call me selfish, arrogant and egocentric for opposing that?


I'm sorry Grufty, but I have to be with Dave on this. I can't help but think your positioning of yourself on "...the extreme fringe" almost sounds like a comfort zone. You will always be 'right' there. And the 'rest ' of us will always be 'wrong'. Actually, I think you are 'right ' about a great many things a great many times and I totally respect your wisdom and dilligence. But the picture you paint is beautiful, desireable, ulitmately essential, but utterly, utterly, unrealistically acheiveable by November 2008.
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