pooley wrote:
Ok, I know i've been a bit flip about all this. But I have said that I agree that we all have to manage our waste properly. I just don't think this is the way. From the very start it's been underhand and secretive and, as you have quite rightly said, could have been handled better.
Indeed. But the fact that the council have handled the PR badly doesn't really have much bearing on the merits of the scheme. I honestly don't believe (sadly) that people are responsible enough to minimise the waste they produce without some form of incentive (or disincentive). And charging a fee based upon the quantity of waste you produce seems the obvious and fairest way of doing that.
Do you have another suggestion that would induce people to minimise the waste they produce? I'm not saying you must have a better idea in order to disagree with the one being proposed; I disagree with plenty of policies without having a better idea (knowing something won't work isn't necessarily the same as knowing what will). But I'd be interested in hearing if you do.
I'm afraid, other than education, there is no system that'll work (that I know of) in UK. In a culture when 'being a bit of a greenie' is considered an insult to the daily mail crowd, most trials are doomed to failure. As you say though, that is no reason not to try them.
As I say; this is a system that is working well in some countries, so there's at least some evidence that it might work in the UK. Why not try it then? If it doesn't work, then scrap it and try something else. But people need to stop generating waste in the quantities they're currently doing.
Agreed, but when it is handed to us by stealth, it straight away makes people suspicious. Open and honest is the only way. but, as you say the way it was introduced is not a reason for not trying to combat waste.
pooley wrote:
Sorry that I didn't say when I agreed with you. Like you I think that something needs to be done, like you I think we all have to claim personal responsibility for our waste. Like you (i'm assuming) I recycle, and do all I can to manage my waste.
Seriously man, I wasn't suggesting you should say "I agree" to things I say, merely that it's frustrating to provide a considered response and get zero feedback on it. Whether you agree, disagree, or think what I'm saying is complete toss isn't the issue... I'm just looking for an indication that I'm not talking to myself.
point taken!!
I hope :)
pooley wrote:
Unlike you, I think this system isn't the way forward. My comment about warfare on the streets was meant to be taken literally. What I meant is, and has been said before on this thread, it will lead to people putting heavier objects in other peoples bins. And disposing of rubbish in less than ethical ways.
Fair enough. If you don't think it's the way forward, do you have any ideas as to what is? (as mentioned elsewhere, I'm not suggesting you do / should / must have a better idea; just interested in what it might be if you do).
And do please answer my other question (posed several times - sorry for repeating myself): why will it result in warfare in the UK, when it didn't in Ireland and the USA? (two nations which - culturally speaking - have more of a history of noncompliance with authority than the UK).
My comment about it resulting in warfare was meant to be light hearted. What I meant, and have said before, is that it'll result in sneaky little herberts dispossing of their waste in ways that we don't want them to. Putting rubbish in other peoples bins (however much people secure them, someone will find a way round it) dumping difficult stuff in fields, on the street etc.
What I meant by warfare was that it'll only take a few people catching someone using their bin for BIN RAGE to become an epidemic. Or at least in the eyes of the general population.
pooley wrote:
Sorry if you thought my objections were only thought up to justify my viewpoint. That isn't the case. The one time when something just popped into my head, I admitted it at the start of the post. Maybe that's where you got the idea. Maybe I'm not very good at expressing myself.
Apologies for the accusation. The reason I like this forum (the reason it's the only one I bother posting to these days) is that most regulars are here to openly discuss ideas and are just as interested in discovering mistakes in their own reasoning as they are in pointing out the same in others. We
all have views and ideas that, under scrutiny, simply turn out to be unconscious assumption or sheer prejudice. Me as much as anyone. And there's no greater service you can do me than to show me why an opinion of mine is wrong. I may suffer a mildly bruised ego for 10 minutes, but I've gained some valuable information forever. A trade-off I'm more than willing to make.
:)
(Note: none of this is meant to apply specifically to this discussion - honestly - I'm generalising here, not surreptitiously claiming "I'm right and you're wrong on the rubbish thing.")
And you're as good as anyone at expressing themself pooley. The fact that you get misinterpreted from time to time is a function of online forums, not your writing style. Let me know when I misinterpet you and I'll do the same when you do it to me. I'd put money on the frequency being roughly equal.
