Incoming Traveller
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Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 12, 2003, 21:17
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[I have no idea of the political persuation of the folks here, but here goes anyway:]
Well, not just the swastika - I was put off the runes for quite a while due to some of the symbols being used by somewhat dodgy right-wingers. But the swastika is the most well known symbol that has been abused. Can it be reclaimed? Or have the Nazis destroyed that possibility (after only using it for a few years)? Manwoman, an American artist, has spent most of his life trying to reclaim the symbol - he is tattooed with at least a hundred of the things (http://www.manwoman.net). Is he on a hiding to nothing?
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Hob
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 12, 2003, 21:49
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Whae neh!
I think it depends which way it points. It used to be used to advertise toffe in tyneside in the 1930s
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joudicaa
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 12, 2003, 22:23
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the link won't work for me.
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Hob
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 12, 2003, 22:34
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The close bracket got in the hyperlink
Try
http://www.manwoman.net/
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Moon Cat
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 12, 2003, 23:23
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Sadly I think it's almost impossible to disassociate the swastika, which ever way round it is, from its appropriation by the Nazis. The extent of the evil perpetuated in its name, and the horror and magnitude the shadow of nazism cast across mankinds recent history is just too big, too consuming. We are only talking 60 odd years ago, which is a blip timewise in human history and not even a microcosm in the history of the planet. It's too near and there are too many people still alive who suffered under that symbol, as well those who died and are in the memories of their children & grandchildren. I appreciate the sentiment of those that try to reclaim it, but one guy tatooing himself and a few well read mystic types saying it's ok is not gonna erase the connection between the swastika and the mass murder, conflict, pain and suffering that were carried out under that banner. Too near & too big.
Those are my feelings anyway.
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bitteryesbitter
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 12, 2003, 23:47
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oh yes,.....i've got one on my mailbox next to my name. but it was put there with every intention for it's ORIGINAL meaning, before it was thwarted by Hitler and his propaganda machine. i've been drawn into middle eastern history etc,.etc.,...which is where i first learned of the REAL Aryans (not the skinheads mind you)...and the real meaning of the swastika. it is and ancient symbol, beautiful in its meaning..to many it is the rays of the sun, symbolizing life force, etc, etc. it is in this way that i chose to see it,....tho, the fact remains folks often pass my mailbox with puzzled looks on their faces.
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Merrick
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 12, 2003, 23:57
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I know what you're saying Moncat, and I agree entirely, but i also think that if the symbol is ever to be disinvested of its Nazi menaing then it will start somewhere, and be controvesial and too little too soon.
Its ancient use goes around the world, including my neck of the woods in West Yorkshire at the Swastika Stone on the cup-and-ring infested Ilkley Moor.
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/95
On the Manwoman thing, in 1999 the venerable Gyrus (who also posted on the Swastika Stone page) did an interview with manwoman that is online here:
http://norlonto.net/index.cfm/action/interviews.view/itemID/61
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Moon Cat
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 00:27
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I'm not saying its an impossibilty for the future. In an ideal world I would like to see all such symbols removed from any context of evil such as nazism.
But I can't help but feel that if nothing else, out of respect for those that say, survived the horrors of the concentration camp, then the whole matter of reclaiming the swastika must be adressed with the absolute consideration of those people foremost.
It's all very well pointing out the lengthy history of the symbol and referencing the academia that can illustrate the symbols origins and 'true' meanings. But that doesn't mean squat to the sheer scale of the evil perpertrated under the sign of the swastika. Telling holocaust survivors it's an ancient sanskrit symbol or whatever I think is maybe to undermine the depth of what the swastika stands for in their eyes. I'm only going on personal feelings here though, but thats what how the thread kicked off.
It's sad that once a symbol is appropriated as a symbol of oppresion then it seems the 'negative' resonance it has is kind of amplified, almost obliterating any previous 'positive' aspects it might of had. I mean, look at the stars and stripes. As a kid I would associate that in a very direct way as meaning "the good guys". Naive of course but an understandable association I think.
It hasn't taken too long for that particular flag to take on a kind of chilling resonance- of power, control, monolithic corporate presence and...well I guess you can fill in your own thoughts there.
Sadly I think its a lot easier to corrupt symbols than maybe to reclaim them. Not saying it's impossible - look at the slow reappropriation of the St Georges Cross from the grubby mits of the far right - but I just feel it requires a huge amount of care and work ,perhas time & distance, above all, consideration for those who may have suffered under a particular symbol.
Anyhoo I am DEFinitely associating the eyelid hanging over my eye with wanting to sleep. G'night!
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Lawrence
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 05:17
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It was generally a good luck symbol before the nazis used it.
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Lawrence
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 05:21
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Yeah, I don't think I'd ever wear a swastika, despite that it is helpful as a sigil though...
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