necropolist
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 15:44
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uhh, neither, i dont think. simply that we shouldn't see nazi regimes as 'just another example' of an evil/vile regime - they are in a completely seperate class. as for what symbols they use, i dont give a fuck. tho it is always good to stick the swastika on them so that people KNOW what kind of total shits they are dealing with.
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Incoming Traveller
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 15:46
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Loads of interesting replies here. I can sort of see it from both sides:
- what would a holocaust survivor think of the issue? I don't know, quite honestly.
- what's the point? - well, as someone said to me, to deprive the far right of a powerful symbol would be a good thing.
Personally, I think ManWoman is a brave person with his heart in the right place. As for his work being insignificant, well, many of us chip away at things we feel passionately about. Doing nothing until you think there's enough people with you could be counter productive. Standing up for the truth is worthwhile in itself, I believe.
And a lot of history has been re-written - i.e. Britain's Goddesses and Pagan roots have been hidden or hijacked by Christianity. It doesn't mean we should leave it that way.
But I do take the point that what the Nazis did is still very, very close to us and whether or not now is the best time to reclaim the Swastika is a difficult question.
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Hob
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 16:11
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I getcha.
Agreed that it's handy when they stick a symbol on everything as it helps to identify the enemy. Flag syndrome. I'm still unsure if nazis are in a class of their own, Is ometimes suspect that there are others as vile, but they haven't incurred the wrath of the capitalist propaganda machine to the extent that every crime is broadcast.
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Lawrence
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 16:36
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Actually that was a song title from my gay pen-pal Douglas P. The song was particuarily about runes, not really about swastikas, but you can read that any way you wish to.
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Lawrence
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 16:37
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I agree.
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Hob
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 16:44
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Can't read runes, so I shall print it out and read it upside down, whilst making an intermittent bleeping noise.
Soz.
There's not much humour in this thread. But then it wouldn't really be appropriate would it?
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Lawrence
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 16:49
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The jist that I am saying is that I agree that what the nazis did were wrong, but it seems hypocritical capitalistic orders like that which rules the states where I live display through the media how evil Hitler was while hypocritically supporting tyrants like Saddam and Pinochet and other despicable leaders. The unjust goverments in South America that my country gave its support to and even downright conspired with often had their secret police and military forces display pictures of Hitler and other nazi regalia while torturing and otherwise mistreating dissidents, and the US did nothing and probably even encouraged it.
Anyways, although this fact has been misused by nazi apologists, my country has killed more Native Americans that Hitler killed Jews. Frankly I hate most governments and politics in general, and you all know I'm a misanthropist anyways...
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Hob
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 16:56
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Govt. Propaganda is rather trying isn't it?
You're not gonna find me disagreeing with those sentiments mon.
I still feel the same way about Brits going to Oz. Serious genocide, yet never admitted to. then there's all the non-nazi germans the Amis let die in the PoW cages in '45-46. The list is probably longer than any of us are aware.
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morfe
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 18:25
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" ...military forces display pictures of Hitler and other nazi regalia while torturing and otherwise mistreating dissidents, and the US did nothing and probably even encouraged it."
It's that word "probably" again. Doesn't that make you just as guilty of labelling and propaganda?
The gap between 'did nothing' and 'encouraged it' is essentially the same as the hypothetical gap between me saying that you (for instance) 'didn't help the Republicans', or me saying that you 'probably encouraged them'.
In fact, in the real world, both those statements could be true ;-)
Polarising is best used for sunglasses :-)
Swastika? Just another symbol put to bad use and lives on as such. I agree with Moon Cat, it's connotations run too deeply for anyone to fart about trying to encourage a 'reclaim the swastika' revolution. Was it ever that important to begin with?
Today i favour a 3-eyed orb to symbolise the harmonic consciousness of the human body, mind and spirit. always three, beyond the polarising power concepts of <this> - <that>, it reminds me to see the person and not the labels, but I know that any flag I invent can be attached to anything. The trouble with wearing a flag is that it can be hidden behind by anyone. Which is why I came to believe 'intent' is best fronted by 'intent', rather than a symbol? But this world is trained to regard symbol first? O holy corporatism Batman! Holy politics Robin. Holy cowpats Mc D.
Swastika? Why try and reclaim something that isn't/wasn't ours to begin with?
I want a Jensen Interceptor or a Triumph Stag for occasional use, does that stand for Gentleperson's Grand Touring Sportscar with a touch of finesse, or does it stand for Capitalist-Pig-Oil-slave Fume-Nazi? Even if I only did 1000 miles per year and 2000 on a pushbike. Who would make the distinction? no-one. Labels! Arghy, I'm guilty of it, so are you, we are becoming a big world of labels with little to say other than this label vs that label.
PS is HH largely 'caucasian' and left wing??
:-P
~o~
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Lawrence
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 19:25
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I think I can get what you're coming from. But it was true that the US at least supported and at times conspired with tyrants. They did teach torture in School of the Americas -- it's been well documented.
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