Lawrence
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 05:24
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Of course the nazis could have used a peace sign, and that would've been seen as negative as well.
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Lawrence
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 05:30
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Actually I believe the "Aryans" (I prefer the term "Indo-European" anyways) were originally from India. Anyways a German friend of mine who I mentioned before told me he didn't think the term "Aryan" meant anything. I think he hated the term since there were unrepentant members of the SS in his family, which is understandible. If I had a family like that, I'd go as far away from them as possible!
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necropolist
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 10:18
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maybe one day, in the dim and distant future, but for now....fuck that! it used to be quite a popular symbol - 4W could probably tell us if that legendary dublin factory - the swastika works - still has the symbol on its wall, it changed its name quite a while back, but left the symbol, iirr.
Whilst there are people who can clearly remeber the death camps, who remember what symbols they were forced to wear under the nazis any attempt to reclaim the swastika must be seen as ignorant and insulting at best. in reality, whenever there are nazi's who parade wearing the swatika on their blackshirts, we shjould have nothing to do with it. even/especially under the guise of some bullshit about 'true' aryanism.
on a completely different point...a few years bak we had this grand massive sheet of acid with a hindi design on it. in the corner was a swastika, we pontificated for a while about who would want to take nazi acid, and on the proncipal of not being able to offer anyone else such a thing i just HAD to take it myself. was rather pleasant actually.
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necropolist
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 10:24
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as wittgensterin once said - words (& all symbols that communicate meaning) mean however thy are used. the origins of the symbol are entirely irrelevant. it is its meaning now that matters. for example, the women's lib symbol - y'know the circle with the cross underneath it kinda thing, actually came from the ancient greeks - who drew it that way to denote womans vanity (it was meant to represent a hand held mirror) - it came to be used as a generic symbol for women, and then was appropriated by the womens libbers, without any irony, or attempt at reclamation. its just the way the symbol changed.
why bother reclaiming the swastika anyway? it's just another shitty old religious symbol? fuck that too! fucking hindu chauvinists are, well not as bad as the nazi's, but they contain within them (in the shape of the RSS, a part of the party of government of half india) an openly fascist party.
fuck the swastika.
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ratcni01
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 10:28
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This thing or similar has been posted up before once or twice
You hit the nail on the head Necropolist
I think I said before but you've put it well.
Why bother reclaiming it? It's only a symbol, make a new one up. The symbol isn't important, what people do in it's name is!
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ratcni01
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 10:30
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Well expressed MC!
I agree, I conker even!
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Lawrence
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 12:14
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I never even said anything about reclaiming it at all. I think you are right. But there's a difference between displaying it and using it as a sigil. When I've done the latter it didn't turn me into a nazi... And who would know or care while you're doing it anyways, since no one else would notice it and it's a private thing generally?
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Lawrence
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 12:16
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I think the whole idea of "true" "aryanism" is bullshit in itself, in my opinion.
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necropolist
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 12:29
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>
I never even said anything about reclaiming it at all.
no but the original q did, hence my reply!
of course simply uising the symbol doesn't turn anyone into a nazi simply by itself. but it is JUST a symbol, an artistic device, that is overwhelmingly associated with an utterly reactionary shitey political philosophy. I don't see any reason to use it at all really.
But I am a die hard materialist communist, so i would say that wouldn't i?
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Hob
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Re: Reclaiming the Swastika
Oct 13, 2003, 13:48
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What happens when all the possible symbols are used up?
It's got to happen sooner or later. The you've got to start using the old ones. And there are only a finite number of ays you can combine lines and curves etc. to make an effective symbol.
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