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Unsung Forum » Revolutions are celebrated when they are no longer dangerous |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 22, 2010, 16:06
Sep 22, 2010, 12:34
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It's a good quote from Pierre Boulez and it got me thinking as it kind of follows on from David Stubbs book. Extremes in visual art are now pretty acceptable as part of mainstream taste and virtually all rock n roll (inc Punk) and related genres are now safely consigned to the murky shallows of nostalgia. So what is there left in music that is too raw and dangerous to get the BBC4 / Sunday broadsheet / Mojo retro treatment? I would say that Free Jazz and the 12 Tone serialists are still out on the frontiers of popular taste. Anything else in music that hasn't charmed the bourgeoisie and been used to sell some product or another? |
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singingringingtree 964 posts |
Sep 22, 2010, 12:39
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power electronics
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Kid Calamity 9045 posts |
Edited Sep 22, 2010, 12:42
Sep 22, 2010, 12:42
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Good theme for a thought provoking thread, Ian. IanB wrote: I would say that Free Jazz and the 12 Tone serliasts are still out on the frontiers of popular taste. Anything else in music that hasn't charmed the bourgeoisie and been used to sell some product or another? Free jazz does still upset and even raise the hackles in many. You're either receptive and switched on to it or you really don't get it, at all no matter, it seems, how hard one tries. I think it's the frustration of not being aboard something that's happening - and then it becomes anger that they perceive it as elitist. Erm, what is 12 Tone Serialists, though?
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wychburyman 951 posts |
Sep 22, 2010, 13:56
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Good strand! However, I'm always so far behind the times that it's already out of fashion by the time I get into it. But still yearning to see/hear something more revolutionary. If I may; "free jazz" sounds as if it is all very postmodern to me. Rather the antithesis of revolutionary grand theory and all that. Discuss!
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thesweetcheat 6214 posts |
Sep 22, 2010, 15:13
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Large amounts of pioneering electronic/futurist music has still never been used to sell cars or perfume, to my knowledge. I'm thinking Russoli, Marinetti, Schaeffer, Xenakis, Varese, even Stockhausen. All of these were revolutionary, every bit as much as Stravinsky was. I'm not sure the Residents' music will ever be fully embraced by the mainstream.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 22, 2010, 16:24
Sep 22, 2010, 15:56
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Kid Calamity wrote: Good theme for a thought provoking thread, Ian. IanB wrote: I would say that Free Jazz and the 12 Tone serliasts are still out on the frontiers of popular taste. Anything else in music that hasn't charmed the bourgeoisie and been used to sell some product or another? Erm, what is 12 Tone Serialists, though? Berg Schoenberg and Webern basically though jazzers dabbled as did a lot of post war composers. You'd know the sound from a zillion European art house movie soundtracks of the late 60s. Sounds discombobulated, profoundly sad and never really resolved / at rest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-tone_technique
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thesweetcheat 6214 posts |
Sep 22, 2010, 15:56
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IanB wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: Large amounts of pioneering electronic/futurist music has still never been used to sell cars or perfume, to my knowledge. I'm thinking Russoli, Marinetti, Schaeffer, Xenakis, Varese, even Stockhausen. All of these were revolutionary, every bit as much as Stravinsky was. I'm not sure the Residents' music will ever be fully embraced by the mainstream. That's pretty much what I was thinking i.e. that maybe pop / rock music has no cultural teeth any more and ironically it is the largely cosseted (these days) world of Art Music is where all the true revolutionary outsider music resides. I might be wrong which is why I asked the question. Would be an interesting list, though not one Mojo would be publishing! The saddest thing about my first para is that all this was taking place well over half a century ago! Even the Residents prime period was over 30 years ago. Maybe my difficulty is that I don't really like much of the "dangerous" or "revolutionary" music of the last decade, e.g. grime, dubstep, etc. I buy plenty of new music, but I wouldn't say it could be classed as in any way revolutionary. The Wire CDs always impress me (the magazine, rather than the equally excellent group), perhaps they still showcase the periphery?
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IanB 6761 posts |
Sep 22, 2010, 15:59
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wychburyman wrote: Good strand! However, I'm always so far behind the times that it's already out of fashion by the time I get into it. But still yearning to see/hear something more revolutionary. If I may; "free jazz" sounds as if it is all very postmodern to me. Rather the antithesis of revolutionary grand theory and all that. Discuss! Interesting as I associate it with a communal / collectivist outlook, the kind back-to-Africa Afro/Latin-American Marxism of the 60s and 70s and total independence from the harmony of European music. |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 22, 2010, 16:23
Sep 22, 2010, 16:22
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thesweetcheat wrote: Large amounts of pioneering electronic/futurist music has still never been used to sell cars or perfume, to my knowledge. I'm thinking Russoli, Marinetti, Schaeffer, Xenakis, Varese, even Stockhausen. All of these were revolutionary, every bit as much as Stravinsky was. I'm not sure the Residents' music will ever be fully embraced by the mainstream. That's pretty much what I was thinking i.e. that maybe pop / rock music has no cultural teeth any more and ironically it is the largely cosseted (these days) world of Art Music is where all the true revolutionary outsider music resides. I might be wrong which is why I asked the question. Would be an interesting list, though not one Mojo would be publishing!
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thesweetcheat 6214 posts |
Sep 22, 2010, 16:23
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IanB wrote: I gave up on The Wire a long time ago more or less around the time when they gave up on a lot of the music that interests me. I should maybe dip back in. Talking of dubstep I bought the two Burial albums and loved them for their intensity for a short while but ultimately there was the same element of commercial compromise that Goldie brought into Inner City Life with the female vocals. I don't mind people selling a lot of records (good on ya if you can make money out of any music these days) I just don't want to be told that music is revolutionary when it isn't. The only music magazine I buy now is Gramophone. I am old. I usually have heard of maybe 10% of the artists referred to in The Wire. I always enjoy Invisible Jukebox though. I tried to like Burial, but it's just not doing it for me.
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