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Jeremy Corbyn continues promoting Labour lies about SNP (BBC Andrew Marr Show 27 Sept 2015)
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IanB
IanB
6761 posts

Edited Sep 28, 2015, 13:46
Re: Jeremy Corbyn continues promoting Labour lies about SNP (BBC Andrew Marr Show 27 Sept 2015)
Sep 28, 2015, 13:29
drewbhoy wrote:
IanB wrote:
As a instinctual internationalist I struggle with the very idea of nationalism as a political movement. My mind is open I just don't understand the argument or what the appeal is beyond tribalism and an arbitrary and wholly nostalgic sense of what constitutes a nation state.

Should we turn the clock back to 1708 for everyone in Europe and return Greece to Venetian rule, turn a chunk of Holland over to Spain and send the rest of the Balkans into the arms of Turkey? 300 years on is there really any difference?


Why should we suffer from a Govt and unionist parties that don't care? Its lies lies and more lies. I'd hoped and expected more from Corbyn but in the end he fell down at the first hurdle. As for nationalism I don't believe in that but I do believe in independence and Scotlands right to care for the disadvantaged/elderly/refugees/schools/health and so on.

Turn the clock back 300 years if you want, doesn't make sense to me. We are looking forwards to creating a better Scotland, getting rid of sectarianism (the Vote No dream of keeping this going has had its day), taking on the racists, proper care for the elderly/disabled, better education etc etc. Maybe it is idealism but at least it's a start. It's wonderful that many people south of the border send letters/emails to the Scottish MPs asking for help with their concerns. No reason for that to stop if we are independent.


What hurdle did Corbyn fall at? Conference delegates voted against Trident being a debating issue in favour of other items. Conference voted not Corbyn. It's a democracy not a dictatorship. In any case do you think Labour is going to support a party seemingly dedicated to bequeathing England a permanent Tory majority so as to have something solid to push against? Why on earth would we do that?

I am not the one advocating turning the clock back. I am just throwing into the pot some other oddities of the European map that existed the last time Scotland was an independent state.

I think there are grounds for doubt that the SNP will be able to prioritise any of the things you describe once independence is achieved. There are economic doubts and there is also the historical facts as to what generally happens to nationalist movements once the main political aims have been won. The USA probably being the prime example.

For socialists the idea that working people are stronger together regardless of borders should be an article of faith and essentially there is no difference between what you describe and Boris advocating putting a wall around the M25 and declaring London an independent city state in order to protect *his* people and hang the rest. The nationalist and socialist instincts are I believe ultimately incompatible beyond short term marriages of convenience.
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