Cleira
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Re: bigger burger
Sep 20, 2004, 18:53
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I couldn't agree with you more, Daminxa.
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Cleira
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Re: bigger burger
Sep 20, 2004, 18:53
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I couldn't agree with you more, Daminxa.
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baza
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Re: bigger burger
Sep 20, 2004, 21:35
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>thats a pretty stupid argument.
Logic is stupid, is it?
>fox hunting, which is evil and horrible, has no other purpose than the death of an animal.
That's your opinion. I'm sure that those who hunt foxes would have a different viewpoint. However, it's not for me to speak up for foxhunters.
>people eating meat is there choice....
....and, as I asked earlier, sod the suffering of the animals?
Just as people hunting foxes is their choice....and sod the suffering of the animals.
>I am not a veggie (wife is) and still consider that i hate pointless suffering of animals.
>two very different issues.
Wrong. As you are a meat-eater, I have reason to believe that 'you' are responsible for the pointless suffering of animals. Within present day society, there is no need for the slaughter of animals tp provide us with adequate, tasteful food. Why do you eat the rotting flesh of animals you've had (I presume) others murder for you?
:o)
Baz
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baza
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Re: bigger burger
Sep 20, 2004, 21:54
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>Never thought being an omnivore (which we are supposed to be, whether we like meat
>or not) was in quite the same league as hunting...
I have two observations to make here:
1. You are an omnivore because you choose to be an omnivore. I am a herbivore because I choose to be a herbivore. Within our present day society we have the choice.
2. In my opinion, the consumption of meat products within our society is far, far worse than the hunting which takes place. Millions of animals suffer from the day they are born until their untimely death (often still as babies) in order to provide people like you with your fix of meat.
>Nothing to do with the fact (hunting's) downright inhumane and anyone with half a brain can understand that!
Can not anyone with half a brain clearly see that supporting the meat 'industry' is downright inhumane?
>Anyway, like you say, that's a whole different argument!
Anyway, as I am trying to show to you, the arguments are not as different as you claim.
:o)
Baz
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baza
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Re: bigger burger
Sep 20, 2004, 22:03
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>So all meat eaters are total bastards that have no compassion whatsoever for animals >and, by default, are all inbred fuckers who enjoy hunting with dogs?
As you've asked, I'll give my answer. No.....and I didn't say that.
>Is every member of your family a vegan who never wears wool or leather, then?
Do you hold yourself responsible for every action of the members of your family?
>You've never come across anyone who eats chicken occasionally but still feels it's wrong >to hunt with dogs?
Yes, I have. What's your point?
>Where do you live, a Buddhist temple in Nepal?
No, a semi-detached house in Solihull.
:o)
Baz
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Riddley Walker
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Re: bigger burger
Sep 21, 2004, 00:02
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I won't attempt to argue that eating meat is morally acceptable, but I don't feel shame at doing it.
Maybe I'm just weak. I have tried to be vege 3 or 4 times and always failed (I'm in my mid 20s). I have counted as my closest friends people who really seem to hate the human race and think other animals far superior.
And I think that it is industrialised farming and overconsumption of meat that is the real evil, as Daminxia pretty much said.
But really, if you can't tell the difference between those who eat meat but are basically trying to be kind and good people and those that enjoy killing animals and watching them suffer for its own sake, then we are truly fucked.
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Daminxa
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Re: bigger burger
Sep 21, 2004, 19:01
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Couldn't have put it better myself. I've known plenty of vegans in my time that are oh-so careful not to harm baa lambs and moo cows but treat other human beings like shit, so in my view that makes them no better than us barbaric meat eaters!
Thing is, it's difficult to do anything without harming other living beings, isn't it? The commercial farming of grain and veg destroys natural woodland and meadow habitats, driving cars pumps horrible polutants into the environment that damage trees and wildlife, switching on a light or a computer means that fossil fuels have to be burnt, causing further environmental damage - don't need to go on, do I? Yet we still have to eat, we still have to get around and we still rely on electricity for our day to day existence.
I appreciate what you're saying about trying to go veggie with no success, too - I can go without meat, very rarely eat it and even then just poultry, but I still wear leather shoes and I couldn't do without dairy and eggs, so I'm no 'better' than a meat eater which is why I don't describe myself as vegetarian and why I don't condemn other people for eating meat.
Basically it's nigh on impossible to live your life without causing some kind of suffering to others; we can make small concessions to minimise that; buying humanely reared meat, organic veg, using the car/electricity as seldom as possible, avoiding buying clothes made by kids in third world sweatshops etc, but at the end of the day we're all damaging the planet just by being here!
Life sucks, eh?
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Daminxa
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Re: bigger burger
Sep 21, 2004, 19:11
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What's MY point? What's yours, exactly? That farming is no better than hunting? Well you're probably right - for the record I'm not a big fan of farmers either, but I don't think it's realistic to expect everyone in the country to go vegan, which is why I say if people want to eat meat it's their call.
It's all well and good taking a stand against farming and going vegan, fair fucks to you if you're succeeding with that, but where do you stand on taking life-saving medication which has in the past been tested on animals? Isn't that just as bad? Don't answer that, I think I know what you're going to say!
Yes, farming is crap, and yes, animals do suffer unnecessarily in the name of providing us with meat, dairy produce, wool and leather. It sucks, and in an ideal world (or a Buddhist Temple in Nepal) it probably should be abolished altogether. When you come up with a way of achieving that in the real world, however, let us know.
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morfe
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Small point
Sep 21, 2004, 21:06
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"taking a stand against farming and going vegan"
Aren't vegetables farmed?
(ducks flamewar) ;-)
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baza
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Re: bigger burger
Sep 21, 2004, 21:13
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>What's MY point? What's yours, exactly?
My point is:
Going to your local supermarket and buying a chicken which has had to suffer all of its short life before being murdered simply so that you can buy it a little more cheaply in order to enjoy eating its flesh is, in my mind, at least as bad as hunting a fox.
Can you not see my point?
At least the fox has the opportunity to enjoy some of its life. Your chicken would have been better of not to have been born. You, as the consumer, are responsible.
You originally said:
"I'd never condemn anyone from eating meat - their call."
And I asked:
.....and sod the suffering of the animals?
You didn't answer my question. Will you answer it now, please?
Baz
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