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Daminxa 1415 posts |
Sep 22, 2004, 08:20
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And sod the suffering of the animals? No, not at all; people wanting to eat meat should ensure that what they buy has been as humanely reared as possible, and it is possible to rear farm animals without them suffering. A free-range chicken, which is allowed to roam round clucking and pecking at corn is going to be about as happy as it's possible for a chicken to be, certainly far happier than a battery farmed chicken forced to live cooped up in its own excrement for the duration of its life, so yes, it's worth spending the time and extra money to buy free-range chicken. I think this is a compromise, less radical and more workable than expecting everyone to be vegetarian. If you're asking if I care about animal suffering, of course I do, as do the majority of meat eaters, I'm sure. I just think people have a right to eat meat if they want to, but I don't condone cruel farming practises. I think awareness of poor farming practises and the promotion of humane farming is the way forward, but I don't think we should all go vegan. Sorry.
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PMM 3155 posts |
Sep 22, 2004, 12:46
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Funnily enough, I was just talking about this the other day... In Tescos at midnight with non-veggie wife, eyeing up the chickens. I suddenly thought about the "pay it forward" philosophy, and realised that it applied here. What you do with a dead chicken doesn't matter. Buy it or not, it makes no difference to the chicken. But buying it, and feeding the demand for it ensures that future generations of chickens are raised and killed. If it's a free-range chicken, then at least it has some quality of life first, but ultimately, the reason for the industrial production of food animals is driven by demand. I never thought of putting food production on a par with hunting, and can see that the point baza is making is a valid one. I'd always thought that there was some justification for keeping animals for food, compared to the killing of animals for "sport", but now I'm not so sure. But here's the big bit. Our industrialised, centralised food production system is heavily dependent upon scarce resources, and we wont be able to sustain it much longer. Without cheap oil greasing the wheels, how we avoid the starvation of countless millions in years to come is going to be a huge issue. A field of crops that feeds humans feeds far more people than a field of grass that feeds a cow that feeds humans. I don't know the exact proportions, but I'm sure someone here will have the figures. In the future, choosing to eat meat will mean depriving other humans of the right to life too.
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PMM 3155 posts |
Sep 22, 2004, 19:14
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Of course I'm not saying everybody should be. I'm saying that you have a choice, based upon reason and morality. You've been told that eating animals perpetuates a system that causes misery and suffering to millions of animals, which will lead to widespread famine in the 3rd world, and which is anyway unsustainable. Perhaps you don't accept the above as being in anyway true, but for whatever reason, you've made your decision. I couldn't sleep at night if I chose the same way as you.
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Cleira 269 posts |
Sep 23, 2004, 10:23
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Just some more fuel to the fire; Did you know that it takes 3-4kgs of wild fish to feed and produce 1kg of farmed fish? And another thing ... what about pheasants? I am surrounded by the daft buggers (they are clearly witless - they positively run under the car wheels ). They are 1. Free range, 2. Bred for 'sport' (although can a bird hopping up to the barrel of a gun and peering in asking to be shot be described as sport?) If you are going to eat meat then this must be one of the better ways of doing it????
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Daminxa 1415 posts |
Sep 23, 2004, 10:37
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No, pheasants really ARE terminally thick, which doesn't mean they deserve to die necessarily but that's why they're such an easy target! I think you've touched on a valid point, though, as I mentioned in one of my other messages (can't remember where now) I'd be interested to see how many meat eaters would remain meat eaters if they had to hunt and kill their food themselves? I don't think I could, but then if you're starving, who knows? Meat eating has been made too easy in our society in a way, hence the fact they're gobbling down 6lb burgers in the States... I just think more could and should be done to improve the way animals are farmed, it's not rocket science and most people would be prepared to pay a bit more for well cared for meat. Don't know if I'd bother with it as I can't stomach red meat and never have been able to, not a compassionate thing, to be honest, more a question of just not being able to abide the stuff! I do eat chicken from time to time, though, but I've gone right off that since I saw a revolting programme about factory farmed chicken and you never know what you're buying or where it's from in a supermarket.
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Cleira 269 posts |
Sep 23, 2004, 12:50
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I think you are damn right, Daminxa. I've always held the belief that if you are going to eat meat you should be prepared to do the whole killing and preparation thing yourself. Personally I wouldn't have a problem doing that, but I would certainly eat a lot less meat if I had to do so. It is easier to get properly reared meat these days, although you do have to pay through the nose for it, and quite rightly too. And people are starting to think a bit more carefully about the whole issue, well certainly in the UK, I would say. However, not in the States, from the looks of things.
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Daminxa 1415 posts |
Sep 23, 2004, 15:40
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Have you read 'Fast Food Nation'? Forget who it's by, but that's an eye opener if ever there was one! Made me seriously anti-capitalist, quite apart from anything else, and I've never given a thought to the danger of monopolies before. Also outlined the sinister relationship between MacDonalds and Disney, two organisations I have grave misgivings about! Never liked MacDonalds cos it always used to be v beef orientated (I know they're trying to change that now) and Disney stuff always scared me! I might have to go and see that 'Supersize Me' film, too - thing is all this is preaching to the converted to some extent as I never ate in MacDonalds anyway. It's trying to convince scutters that go there every weekend and think it's a treat for the kids that's the problem... I've even spoken to people who've read 'Fast Food Nation' and said 'Yeah, but MacDonalds is really nice!' No hope, really...
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Sep 23, 2004, 18:10
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Eric Schlosser is the guy who did Fast Food Nation http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060938455/qid=1095959237/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/026-8046781-7262845 Yeah, as you say, a lot of this stuff preaches to the converted, but preaching to the converted is an unfairly underestimated activity - it's what makes the converted keep the faith, and they, in turn, go out and do some conversion. And I'm sure that anyone who goes to see Supersize Me or reads Fast Food Nation learns something (as you say you did), in which case it's not really just preaching to the converted.
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Cleira 269 posts |
Sep 23, 2004, 19:24
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Its unbelievable that so many parents do seriously regard taking their kids to MacD's as a treat. I mean, WTF are they thinking? Treat? Treat for who? Filling your kids up with complete junk is no treat. Giving your kids free fucking Disney toys is no treat (buy them something decent like a book instead). It certainly ain't no treat for the factory farmed animals, the exploited producers of the other bits of cheap food, no treat for the lanfill sites being filled up with yet more polystyrene containers. Clueless!
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Sep 23, 2004, 21:50
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>> If meateaters all ate just a little less meat (ie not everday) the world would undoubtedly be a >> better place. I like you :-) One of the main problems is the current attitude that every meal must have a portion of meat in it.
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