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Tidying up offerings
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toasted-whippet
86 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 12:57
Sweep wrote:
Just a slight update on the thing about posting to appropriate Internet forums to discourage people from leaving inappropriate stuff.

I've joined several hippy and new age forums, but I haven't yet seen any references to people visiting stone circles etc, or to ley lines or anything like that, which seems rather surprising. I didn't Google `neo-pagan' (or pagan for that matter) so I'll do that next, but if anyone happens to find any forums that migh be relevant, please let me know.


Hi,
you are probably the same "Sweep" on the planetgong forum then. Small world, erm web. I am "toasted" on there.
Branwen
824 posts

Edited Jun 15, 2010, 20:21
Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 20:20
nigelswift wrote:
As for them having an innate need to leave stuff, I have an innate need to nick stuff from Tescos. It goes back thousands of generations longer than their need. So what? Should I?


LOL - exactly my point about why it's a waste of time to argue with someone that has an opinion they are set on already, or even those just being devil's advocate. They will argue eristically till the cows come home.

Shoplifting can be a similar urge, some people do it that dont need the item and can easily pay for it if they wanted. And you're right, having the urge doesn't mean you should give in to it - especially if it's damaging. But the treatment is the same in either case, just telling people no isn't going to work if it's a deep seated psychological urge, but working with the person to identify ways to fill or supress the urge without doing the harm does tend to work.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 20:34
"but working with the person to identify ways to fill or supress the urge without doing the harm does tend to work."

Ah, but here we come to an uncomfortable suspicion (on my part alone as I'm grumpy). I reckon in-yer-face dislay of THEIR devotion, for the likes of me to see, is an essential part of the satisfaction. If that was not the case then a nice, allocated "offering spot" fifty yards from the monument and invisible to all but them and Her would be enthusiastically embraced.

;)
revnox
92 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 20:55
Branwen wrote:
nigelswift wrote:
As for them having an innate need to leave stuff, I have an innate need to nick stuff from Tescos. It goes back thousands of generations longer than their need. So what? Should I?


LOL - exactly my point about why it's a waste of time to argue with someone that has an opinion they are set on already, or even those just being devil's advocate. They will argue eristically till the cows come home.

Shoplifting can be a similar urge, some people do it that dont need the item and can easily pay for it if they wanted. And you're right, having the urge doesn't mean you should give in to it - especially if it's damaging. But the treatment is the same in either case, just telling people no isn't going to work if it's a deep seated psychological urge, but working with the person to identify ways to fill or supress the urge without doing the harm does tend to work.



Nice one!
revnox
92 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 21:00
nigelswift wrote:
"but working with the person to identify ways to fill or supress the urge without doing the harm does tend to work."

Ah, but here we come to an uncomfortable suspicion (on my part alone as I'm grumpy). I reckon , for the likes of me to see, is an essential part of the satisfaction. If that was not the case then a nice, allocated "offering spot" fifty yards from the monument and invisible to all but them and Her would be enthusiastically embraced.

;)


Just because you propose that the reason for not opting for the allocated spot is "in-yer-face dislay of THEIR devotion" has no bearing without argument or proof. It is as you rightly say suspicion and only that!
There can be (and probably are numerous reasons for 'opting out'
revnox
92 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 21:03
Resonox wrote:
faerygirl wrote:
Oh and I had a thought. What about the wailing wall? Its stuffed to bursting point with prayersa dn offering and scraps of paper. Is it different because its a religion still in practice? Would it be different if it was in Britain and watched over by an angry farmer?
Rhiannon's reply is roughly what mine would be to that point....your own point that "it is a religion still in practice".. justifies The Wailing Wall being used as it is...
As no-one really knows the exact religion of the people who put stones where they are, so the leaving of offerings is for peoples' own benefits(I daresay there are people who go to modern churches and make a show of putting a generous wad in the collection plate, as if to say, "My offering is bigger than yours!"..strikes me as being like leaving a physical offering by a site ..pointless..if you consider the site spiritual)...and to repeat the oft-made point, these days people are just adapting the sites for their own purposes...even to the extent of laying claims to be following an ancient religion of which there is no evidence for. Even the Druids came long after the erection of many of these sites, and perhaps the pre-romanic druids did use them for their own benefit(much as the church did after them)..but again as to this we only have romanic propaganda against the druids as any kind of evidence...so it isn't an accurate portrayal.


I hate to say this....but well said sir! well said!
Branwen
824 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 22:17
nigelswift wrote:
Ah, but here we come to an uncomfortable suspicion (on my part alone as I'm grumpy). I reckon in-yer-face dislay of THEIR devotion, for the likes of me to see, is an essential part of the satisfaction. If that was not the case then a nice, allocated "offering spot" fifty yards from the monument and invisible to all but them and Her would be enthusiastically embraced. ;)


Some disfunctions are harder to assist with than others. That one I might balk at attempting.
Branwen
824 posts

Edited Jun 15, 2010, 22:27
Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 22:23
I hate to say this....but well said sir! well said!



After quotes by quotes by quotes kind of replies, its hard to see who is being commended.

regarding what faerygirl wrote-

IT's funny how you can ask a rhetorical question for the sake of argument and find people treating you like you put it forward as your own personal opinion you are then expected to defend though.
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 16, 2010, 05:04
Branwen wrote:

regarding what faerygirl wrote-

IT's funny how you can ask a rhetorical question for the sake of argument and find people treating you like you put it forward as your own personal opinion you are then expected to defend though.


I do hope faerygirl didn't think I was questioning her point...I was only expanding my thoughts on the matter by using her quote.
I agree there is an awful lot of quotes within quotes within quotes etc...which get the original somewhat lost...but to be fair, if you just use a specific section of the quote(as I've done with yours Branwen)..people assume it is because their post is being analysed deeply, personally if my posts are treated with such devotion...I'm quite chuffed ;0)
Sorry if this is off-topic!!
faerygirl
412 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 16, 2010, 12:32
revnox wrote:
Resonox wrote:
faerygirl wrote:
Oh and I had a thought. What about the wailing wall? Its stuffed to bursting point with prayersa dn offering and scraps of paper. Is it different because its a religion still in practice? Would it be different if it was in Britain and watched over by an angry farmer?
Rhiannon's reply is roughly what mine would be to that point....your own point that "it is a religion still in practice".. justifies The Wailing Wall being used as it is...
As no-one really knows the exact religion of the people who put stones where they are, so the leaving of offerings is for peoples' own benefits(I daresay there are people who go to modern churches and make a show of putting a generous wad in the collection plate, as if to say, "My offering is bigger than yours!"..strikes me as being like leaving a physical offering by a site ..pointless..if you consider the site spiritual)...and to repeat the oft-made point, these days people are just adapting the sites for their own purposes...even to the extent of laying claims to be following an ancient religion of which there is no evidence for. Even the Druids came long after the erection of many of these sites, and perhaps the pre-romanic druids did use them for their own benefit(much as the church did after them)..but again as to this we only have romanic propaganda against the druids as any kind of evidence...so it isn't an accurate portrayal.


I hate to say this....but well said sir! well said!


I thought the Wailing Wall was built on top of an older existing wall by King Herod. The older wall being of an earlier religion. In much the same way as building churches on top of stone circles, therefore meaning it has been adopted into a newer religion as seen by modern day "pagans" at stone circles.
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