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Tidying up offerings
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StoneGloves
StoneGloves
1149 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 14, 2010, 07:21
Anyone living in a student area will be disconcerted just now by the piles of rubbish that they've left at the end of the year. The student residences have big piles. I've just come through the university and had a browse through one of the piles with a couple of guys about my age. We'll have to watch out for security, says I, we are security says another, we don't start till half seven. Never mind tea lights, shoes, towels, rancid food, crockery, files, folders, winter boots - the back lanes of Jesmond and Heaton are just the same.
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 14, 2010, 07:28
Aye it's effing terrible. But I couldn't say that about the mess at Avebury - the National Trust bylaws prohibit swearing.
Branwen
824 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 14, 2010, 16:09
I've written for some pagan magazines, and when I suggested an article on this topic recently, even the biggest UK one said they had written on the subject many times, usually getting a hearty response that they wouldn't dream of defiling the countryside. I'll write my own article and submit it to some and see if it can be brought up again though.

I tried writing to a couple of new age type groups on the subject, and recieved replies such as "we ARE the folk and if we do it - its a FOLK custom. DONT YOU UNDERSTAND" and "I'll have you know I'M A CHRISTIAN and entitled to contact angels any way I like". I'm not sure what kind of magazines they read or if it would be welcome, but I'll try sending an article to one or two of those too.

Obviously there's a deep psychological need that leaving offerings fits, the increase in leaving flowers at sites of tragedies is on the increase too. Perhaps people need to connect to a the spiritual world that modern life makes one feel increasingly divorced from, but older cultures did the same thing too. Perhaps its a feeling of being afraid then, mother nature is turning into a bitch and we feel the need of guardians from human madness more and more as well.

Perhaps the only way to get the message across in the modern world would be to open a stall and scream "get your biodegradeable offerings here" and charge a fortune for them - the mentality of commercialism being what it is. (I wanted my offering to be bigger, better, faster, more - fine - make it bigger priced, better suited, faster to degrade, and more aesthetic - buy this 5mm square rice paper miniature blessing from me for a £10 ).

I'm descending into a rant so I'll stop now.
tjj
tjj
3606 posts

Edited Jun 14, 2010, 17:58
Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 14, 2010, 17:53
Branwen wrote:
I've written for some pagan magazines, and when I suggested an article on this topic recently, even the biggest UK one said they had written on the subject many times, usually getting a hearty response that they wouldn't dream of defiling the countryside. I'll write my own article and submit it to some and see if it can be brought up again though.

I tried writing to a couple of new age type groups on the subject, and recieved replies such as "we ARE the folk and if we do it - its a FOLK custom. DONT YOU UNDERSTAND" and "I'll have you know I'M A CHRISTIAN and entitled to contact angels any way I like". I'm not sure what kind of magazines they read or if it would be welcome, but I'll try sending an article to one or two of those too.

Obviously there's a deep psychological need that leaving offerings fits, the increase in leaving flowers at sites of tragedies is on the increase too. Perhaps people need to connect to a the spiritual world that modern life makes one feel increasingly divorced from, but older cultures did the same thing too. Perhaps its a feeling of being afraid then, mother nature is turning into a bitch and we feel the need of guardians from human madness more and more as well.

Perhaps the only way to get the message across in the modern world would be to open a stall and scream "get your biodegradeable offerings here" and charge a fortune for them - the mentality of commercialism being what it is. (I wanted my offering to be bigger, better, faster, more - fine - make it bigger priced, better suited, faster to degrade, and more aesthetic - buy this 5mm square rice paper miniature blessing from me for a £10 ).

I'm descending into a rant so I'll stop now.


Your not ranting Branwen, sounds to me that you are trying to understand 'why' people feel the need to make offerings to the earth. I wonder if it is the same psychology that made people buy 'indulgences' in medieval christian times. Several posts ago I played devil's advocate and said I sometimes leave berries as an autumnal offering at a discreet country spot. In truth, I haven't done that for years (though I do leave something similar for the birds in my local nature reserve).

There are lots of ways someone can leave the 'spirit of an offering' without even going into the countryside - my favourite one is to go through my books, cds, wardrobe and take a bag along to a charity shop. Beneficial all round as de-cluttering always gives a good feeling.
Branwen
824 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 14, 2010, 19:57
tjj wrote:
Your not ranting Branwen, sounds to me that you are trying to understand 'why' people feel the need to make offerings to the earth. I wonder if it is the same psychology that made people buy 'indulgences' in medieval christian times. Several posts ago I played devil's advocate and said I sometimes leave berries as an autumnal offering at a discreet country spot. In truth, I haven't done that for years (though I do leave something similar for the birds in my local nature reserve).

There are lots of ways someone can leave the 'spirit of an offering' without even going into the countryside - my favourite one is to go through my books, cds, wardrobe and take a bag along to a charity shop. Beneficial all round as de-cluttering always gives a good feeling.


Yeah, I feel it's better than just saying dont do that - I dont like it, others dont like it, only you like it. It gets me nowhere as opinions always differ. I'd rather find out why they are doing it then point out they can get the same effect without being the bad guy. Often its a lack of understanding of the original beliefs they think they are copying, which I can sometimes help with as a folklorist.

Re charity shops, my earlier posts mention their modern cloutie trees they have. Also I would like to add, if you register at a charity shop, they give you a donation code, and they can get 28p in the £ extra back from the tax man for each £ your donation of goods raises, so please register. You can then find out how much your junk was worth to them at the end of the year if you want. I'm not sure if thats then a tax deductable amount for you too - but it lets you know the difference you made.
Resonox
604 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 05:30
tjj wrote:
Several posts ago I played devil's advocate and said I sometimes leave berries as an autumnal offering at a discreet country spot. In truth, I haven't done that for years (though I do leave something similar for the birds in my local nature reserve).


You wouldn't be able to do even that around here as the local authorities are strict(OK they've got signs up) about upsetting the "status quo" of nature reserves by leaving "non-indigenous seeds and berries"(I'll try to get a picture of one of their signs).
I've never heard of anyone actually being prosecuted, or even having their wrist slapped for it though...but you never know...maybe they employ Seed Police ;0)
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 07:16
Branwen wrote:
I've written for some pagan magazines, and when I suggested an article on this topic recently, even the biggest UK one said they had written on the subject many times, usually getting a hearty response that they wouldn't dream of defiling the countryside....... I tried writing to a couple of new age type groups on the subject, and recieved replies such as "we ARE the folk and if we do it - its a FOLK custom.


I'm glad you've drawn a clear line between the majority of pagans who are perfectly sensible people who wouldn't dream of imposing themselves on sites and a small minority of mainly pre-GCSE twerps. Pity NT and EH can't recognise the distinction instead of pandering to the latter as if they're the former viz the completely unnecessary "consultation" on reburial.

As for them having an innate need to leave stuff, I have an innate need to nick stuff from Tescos. It goes back thousands of generations longer than their need. So what? Should I?
tiompan
tiompan
5758 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 07:46
nigelswift wrote:


As for them having an innate need to leave stuff, I have an innate need to nick stuff from Tescos. It goes back thousands of generations longer than their need. So what? Should I?

There's a major difference between the two urges ,one is a base instinct concerned with gain and consequently discouraged within cultures whilst the other is purely cultural , concerned with giving and actively encouraged in many cultures .
I'd take heed of the advice of parents/teachers / etc stay away from Tescos if you feel that urge , it could turn out emabarrassing .
nigelswift
8112 posts

Edited Jun 15, 2010, 08:11
Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 08:08
I don't see a lot of active encouragement of leaving stuff at megalithic sites in Britain. That being so it could be argued there isn't a major difference between the two urges - both involve knowingly depriving others.

Anyhow, both wrongs against the majority will go on forever until someone puts their foot down. Tescos hardly ever prosecute and the NT (that has a byelaw saying don't litter) keeps quiet. Only the Rollright Trust seems to be sticking up for the wishes of the majority. Good for them, I think they're an admirable lot.
tiompan
tiompan
5758 posts

Re: Tidying up offerings
Jun 15, 2010, 09:01
Failure to distinguish between the two may partly explain why the “message “ is ignored .
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