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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites |
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Dec 13, 2009, 20:23
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tiompan wrote: tiompan wrote: Branwen wrote: No Tiompan, but if I knew the answer I wouldn't have asked the question... LOL Bolton isn't on that list as it is a Lothian's festivals page. I guess when I see the detail and amount of information on the other pages of that site I think these lost festivals must be something which I am too dumb to have learned about so far, which, lets face it, happens a lot since this whole area of study is new to me. March 5th old calendar would probably put it on the festival of the serpent which falls 15th to the 17th of March modern calendar. But what is the alignment? You'd think i would know how to post a comment here by now . I reckon it's based on a putative alignment possibly from cairnpapple ,Steve used to work there . a point supposedly important like a stone or centre of stone circle and another supposedly important point a pit , outlying stone or something that appears salient to the person suggesting the alignment line up to indicate a point on the horizon ,the day the sun sets or rises there , is festival day . The sun rise or set on that day .
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Branwen 824 posts |
Dec 13, 2009, 20:23
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Very rough guess, I only know of the Festival of the Serpent from folklore, and it fell the 15th to 17th before it was taken over by the banisher of the serpents - St Patrick. But it might have really fallen about the 5th if the changing to the Julian calendar changed the dating. I also wondered if it was a star alignment, and the move to the 5th might be due to pregression. Thats just the first ponderings looking at the first on the list... Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Dec 13, 2009, 20:25
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Branwen wrote: Very rough guess, I only know of the Festival of the Serpent from folklore, and it fell the 15th to 17th before it was taken over by the banisher of the serpents - St Patrick. But it might have really fallen about the 5th if the changing to the Julian calendar changed the dating. I also wondered if it was a star alignment, and the move to the 5th might be due to pregression. Thats just the first ponderings looking at the first on the list... Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions. Weren't the other festivals non stellar based ?
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Branwen 824 posts |
Edited Dec 13, 2009, 20:38
Dec 13, 2009, 20:38
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Beltane and Samhainn were based on the rising and setting of the Pleiades originally, which used to fall midway between the equinoxes and solstices. This halfway method of calculating them was used later to standardise the festivals, which by then were important as rent collecting etc... days.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Dec 13, 2009, 21:19
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Branwen wrote: Beltane and Samhainn were based on the rising and setting of the Pleiades originally, which used to fall midway between the equinoxes and solstices. This halfway method of calculating them was used later to standardise the festivals, which by then were important as rent collecting etc... days. If the pleiades were markers then precession would be a problem , but as both can be calculated from the more reliable solar /lunar cycles why should anyone bother ,with a the pleiades and how do we know they did ?
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dodge one 1242 posts |
Dec 13, 2009, 21:38
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Hi Branwen, do you have any idea how far back in time these "Lost Festivals" are gone missing? Most societies have been on fixed calenders for at least 2000 years{Gregorian}. If you go by the Jewish Calender, it's over 5700 years! What i'm getting at is that it's been a long time since any society has relied on astronomy for calender dating. Regarding folklore, i've noticed that alot of the Irish folktales have mentioned yearly sorts of market gatherings. People would drove cattle or horses to an annual event for sale or trade. Amongst other things. Sometimes in conjunction with racing{as you have described in other posts}. Those tales usally involved a wily Irishman getting accosted along the way by Satan or highwaymen.....The Irishman allways coming out the best, using his wits. I'd bet old megaliths were gathering points for such events. Much like our modern day County Fairs, here in the states. And isn't a Fair a "Festival"? I like to think so. How many of those old Fairs are lost to history? Any thing like what your getting at? Regards D1
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Branwen 824 posts |
Edited Dec 14, 2009, 00:27
Dec 14, 2009, 00:22
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You know Tiompan, its just been so much an accepted fact in paganism that Europe wide the Pleides divided the year this way, that I dunno which source it came from, its everywhere, folklore ties in too, especially those connected Samhain. Books mentioning the subject always say "ancient sources". I've a feeling it's part of the coligny calendar... my brain won't go that far back to where I first heard it but I will look it up. I dunno anything about these festivals Dodge, they are just on the website I gave listed as "lost neolithic festival" and nothing more is given. I thought someone here would know and I could see if they connected with folklore about festivals or fairs maybe.
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dodge one 1242 posts |
Dec 14, 2009, 00:27
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I think the clue is 'Neolithic' festivals. Don't stay up all nite ransacking the Net from end to end Branwen. I've tried it before...It's mostly porn. D1
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Branwen 824 posts |
Edited Dec 14, 2009, 01:31
Dec 14, 2009, 01:20
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LOL Dodge. I won't. I found out long ago I should just let my subconscious drag up old references for me by sleeping on it. Memories of having the becheesus scared out of me by a black eyed pagan storyteller at Samhain might give me nightmares, though. Still. When I wake up I usually remember enough keywords to do a google search. It's not something I've questioned much before, having learned it person to person, not from books. Plus, over the years, I've seen references enough accepting it as fact. But it's good to spend time finding the references again to back up stuff you learn orally. You never know what has been debunked in the intervening years since you last sourced something. I do get annoyed at the way some theories are hailed as fashionable facts, and accepted as true explanations for years, till someone else seems more fashionable with a new theory which debunks the old one. Often both are just supposition, and unproven. eg how the stones got to stonehenge. http://caeraustralis.com.au/celtcalmain.htm#pleiades this site lists some ancient sources mentioning the pleiades. All that aside, my new pet hate is sites with no references... pleiades or lost neolithic festivals alike... they should be labelled quote me as a source and look like an arsehole... Tis the sigh.
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StoneGloves 1149 posts |
Dec 14, 2009, 08:07
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No, that's not true. They were solar festivals first and last, the Plieades (!) stuff was one way of explaining to the populace (sorry for that term) when they were coming about. Have a look at Thom's Megalithic Sites book - his first one - it's in many libraries, don't buy a copy - as he is 'the main man' on alignments.
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