tiompan
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Re: Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites
Dec 16, 2009, 15:21
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scubi63 wrote: tiompan wrote: If the pleiades were markers then precession would be a problem , but as both can be calculated from the more reliable solar /lunar cycles why should anyone bother ,with a the pleiades and how do we know they did ?
I was following this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk
during my Archy studies and found it interesting.
Something in me says there is a chance it could be fake as its provenance looks a little dodgy as it was taken out of its context by the dreaded MD's, however, Wiki says it is now accepted as real so thats good enough for me ;o)
However, taking at face value the disc does show a group of stars assumed to be the Pleiades. I can't think of any other group of stars in the Northern Hemisphere skies that look remotely like those on the disc (but I am no astronomer).
An interesting object nonetheless and maybe a pointer towards the significance of the Pleiades in prehistoric Europe.
:o)
Scubi
Yep Scubi , it's a odd one Nebra I can never decide . The Pleiades like Orion would surely figure in cosmologies all over the world and may even have been used to commemorrate the the start of work or alignment of a passage in a passage grave .The builders would have realised that it would only do the job for a while though . A lot of chambered cairns are roughly facing east which suggests a possible equinox orienation but in the third millenium bc the Pleiades would also have been seen to rise on the horizon so could arguably have been the "marker " but it is quite a bit further north today .
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Branwen
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Re: Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites
Dec 17, 2009, 21:01
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So could the Nebra sky disc be one star shown in seven differnt positions that were important in the year, or something like that?
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tiompan
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Re: Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites
Dec 18, 2009, 13:36
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Branwen wrote: So could the Nebra sky disc be one star shown in seven differnt positions that were important in the year, or something like that?
One thing that doesn't get mentioned is that the arrangment on the Nebra disc is nothing like Pleiades .The seven points on the disc are more rosette like as is often found in in rock art with cup marks . If it is a fake you might have expected the fakers to have copied the cluster pattern a wee bit closer to to the real thing .
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tiompan
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Re: Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites
Dec 18, 2009, 13:39
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tiompan wrote: Branwen wrote: So could the Nebra sky disc be one star shown in seven differnt positions that were important in the year, or something like that?
One thing that doesn't get mentioned is that the arrangment on the Nebra disc is nothing like Pleiades .The seven points on the disc are more rosette like as is often found in in rock art with cup marks . If it is a fake you might have expected the fakers to have copied the cluster pattern a wee bit closer to to the real thing .
This is actually closer to the Pleiades .
http://rockartuk.fotopic.net/c1608714.html
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tiompan
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Re: Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites
Dec 18, 2009, 13:48
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tiompan wrote: tiompan wrote: Branwen wrote: So could the Nebra sky disc be one star shown in seven differnt positions that were important in the year, or something like that?
One thing that doesn't get mentioned is that the arrangment on the Nebra disc is nothing like Pleiades .The seven points on the disc are more rosette like as is often found in in rock art with cup marks . If it is a fake you might have expected the fakers to have copied the cluster pattern a wee bit closer to to the real thing .
This is actually closer to the Pleiades .
http://rockartuk.fotopic.net/c1608714.html
Sorry that should have said similar to nebra rather than like the cluster .
Now I'll have to find one that is like the Pleiades , couldn't they have called it something else ? i find it difficult enough spelling simple things at the best of times .
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scubi63
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Re: Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites
Dec 18, 2009, 14:13
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tiompan wrote: couldn't they have alled it something else ? i find it difficult enough spelling simple things at the best of times .
How about 'The Seven Sisters' - its longer but easier to spell
or
M45 - shorter, but meaningless to most
;o)
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tiompan
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Re: Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites
Dec 18, 2009, 14:41
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scubi63 wrote: tiompan wrote: couldn't they have alled it something else ? i find it difficult enough spelling simple things at the best of times .
How about 'The Seven Sisters' - its longer but easier to spell
or
M45 - shorter, but meaningless to most
;o)
Ahh M45 with Blue Boar connotations suits me fine .Altough I'll probably get confused and call it Watford Gap .
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Branwen
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Re: Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites
Dec 20, 2009, 22:11
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http://www.hongkong.diplo.de/Vertretung/hongkong/en/04Politics/Public__Diplomacy__Texts/Seite__Scheibe__Nebra.html
I saw this article which shows the disc as evolving over time, with many changes.
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tiompan
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Re: Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites
Dec 20, 2009, 23:11
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Branwen wrote:
I think something has got lost from the text or in the translation , there is no explanation of the "rule" which looks like it is central to solving the intercalary month problem . The mention of 82 in relation to the sun is said te be represented by the solstice extremes at that latitude but there is nearly 20 degrees difference . There are other suggestions that it shows something entirely different ,an eclipse . But still the seven dots don't look like the sisters , was the number enough ??
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Branwen
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Re: Lost Festivals at Megalithic Sites
Dec 20, 2009, 23:17
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Lots of art is representational, not accurate. Weren't different stars in the group visible in the past too?
Older folklore, same stories, has nine maidens not seven. I read the pleideas used to have nine more visible stars. Wasn't there a lost pleiad - a wandering pleiad maybe it was... they may have looked very different.
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