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Jesus I despise Brexit.
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thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6102 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Dec 04, 2018, 17:41
Two important updates:

- The government has lost the vote on whether it is in contempt of parliament for not publishing the legal advice it received from the Attorney General. They must now published (due tomorrow).

- The Advocate General to the European Court of Justice has given his view that the UK can unilaterally withdraw Article 50 without needing the agreement of the EU27. It is likely that the ECJ will follow this when it delivers its judgement on the matter.
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6102 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Dec 04, 2018, 17:51
Further important update:

"MPs have voted for an amendment that will ensure MPs can vote in favour of a “plan B” option in January if Theresa May’s deal gets voted down. It was passed by 321 votes to 299 - a majority of 22."

This may effectively see the end of a no-deal outcome.
nigelswift
8065 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Dec 04, 2018, 18:28
And further important news - from the BBC Six O-Clock News:

"We're now going over to Walsall to see what message people there have for Parliament.
(Walsall, of course, was one of the most pro Brexit places in the whole country!)

What happened to Worcester woman etc, the attempts to show a fair reflection of the country? Subsumed by the Beebs pro Brexit bias due to Government bullying, clearly. When this nightmare is over the conduct of the BBC will need close examination.
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Edited Dec 04, 2018, 18:29
Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Dec 04, 2018, 18:29
thesweetcheat wrote:
This may effectively see the end of a no-deal outcome.


More likely the end of Brexit. I said I didn't think Brexit would happen, but I didn't know the mechanism by which it would stop... this is it... boring parliamentary proceduralism.

Hey, whatever does the job, right? :-)

It's not officially the end of Brexit, of course, but I suspect it's the beginning of the end.

The question now...

... what's next?

Britain has permanently damaged its stature internationally with this farce. The various EU opt-outs and rebates that Britain enjoys were always tolerated with a shrug by the rest of Europe; they will start to seriously rankle now. Britain's poisonous tabloid media and its lies about Europe have been broadcast across the continent during brexit and eyebrows have been raised.

By any objective measure, the UK gets a better deal out of the EU than any other single nation (procedurally at least; you can make a case for Germany enjoying the biggest economic benefit; but that's not at the UK's expense). And yet it's the nation that complains loudest, acts most put-upon (though it's now in good company with Hungary, Poland and Italy on that), and talks the most shit about the rest.

What Britain needs to do is elect a German-speaking Francophile Prime Minister who is willing to go to Brussels and apologise profusely for wasting everyone's time and money during the past two years when -- frankly -- Europe had better things to worry about.

In fact, the one thing in the UK's favour here is precisely the seriousness of the other crises that face us. It's more important that we pull together now to deal with far bigger problems than brexit... the rise of populism around the world (including some EU nations), the fragmentation of old power structures (which may have been bad in themselves, but leave a vacuum, and we don't yet know what will fill it), and the real biggie; Climate Change.

But yeah; great news today and a step towards the return of sanity to the UK. There'll be plenty of backlash from Leaver-Quitters though... so there's that to look forward to.
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6102 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Dec 04, 2018, 18:42
nigelswift wrote:
And further important news - from the BBC Six O-Clock News:

"We're now going over to Walsall to see what message people there have for Parliament.
(Walsall, of course, was one of the most pro Brexit places in the whole country!)

What happened to Worcester woman etc, the attempts to show a fair reflection of the country? Subsumed by the Beebs pro Brexit bias due to Government bullying, clearly. When this nightmare is over the conduct of the BBC will need close examination.


At least the BBC have withdrawn their offering to host the May v Corbyn "debate".
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6102 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Dec 04, 2018, 18:50
Agree with all of that. I think the Grieve amendment (that MPs can have a vote on what Plan B should be if May's deal is voted down) coupled with the likely ruling from the ECJ that Article 50 can be withdrawn unilaterally by the UK gets rid of:

(a) likelihood of no-deal (because MPs won't vote for it) and
(b) excuses that we have to leave because the EU won't "let us" change our mind now

An MP described the Advocate General's view on Art.50 being like an Exit light coming on in the tunnel we've been stuck in.

It's certainly a couple of massive dents in the likelihood of Brexit happening at all, not sure I'd go quite as far as to say it's the end of Brexit yet.

The Starmer motion that the Govt are in contempt of Parliament being passed also suggests a government that has no power in reality. I think a GE is maybe a step closer after today, although I still doubt Labour would win a majority at present, their vacillating over which position to take on Brexit will have put a lot of people off.
nigelswift
8065 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Dec 04, 2018, 18:53
Yes we're permanently damaged, economically and in terms of reputation. So be it, if it can end soon.

"complains loudest, acts most put-upon ... and talks the most shit about the rest".
Yes, I've been embarrassed for 50 years! And I actually don't think a national apology is fanciful, it's owed. And it would be on behalf of a majority, which would be fantastic for restoring our reputation! Without it we're going to be badly thought of for several generations. (And you can forget Eurovision!)
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
6102 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Dec 04, 2018, 18:54
thesweetcheat wrote:
Agree with all of that. I think the Grieve amendment (that MPs can have a vote on what Plan B should be if May's deal is voted down) coupled with the likely ruling from the ECJ that Article 50 can be withdrawn unilaterally by the UK gets rid of:

(a) likelihood of no-deal (because MPs won't vote for it)


PS, it was interesting to see a few of May's loyalists voting for this (Fallon, etc). I wonder whether they think that the amendment actually does her a favour by allowing her to consider a Plan B, which she has not countenanced at all in the face of repeated questions from all sides.
grufty jim
grufty jim
1978 posts

Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Dec 04, 2018, 18:56
I've been surprised at how poorly Labour are showing in the polls. And this is despite the fact I think they've done a bloody terrible job in opposition over the past two years. I just thought they'd have better numbers by default... given how disastrous the tories have been lately. It's odd.

Even so... I do think Labour would win comfortably if there was another election. Given how disastrous the entire Brexit thing has been, and given that the tories would be campaigning while fighting a bitter civil war, I think Corbyn *would* get a comfortable majority despite himself, should there be a GE.
nigelswift
8065 posts

Edited Dec 04, 2018, 19:06
Re: Jesus I despise Brexit.
Dec 04, 2018, 19:05
"gets rid of:
(a) likelihood of no-deal (because MPs won't vote for it) and
(b) excuses that we have to leave because the EU won't "let us" change our mind now"

And for that reason she's switched from "my way or hard Brexit" to "my way or Remain" which is exactly what a second Ref ought to be asking. I think the hard men are going to have to find something pretty special.
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