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U-Know! Forum » Jesus I despise Brexit. |
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Feb 20, 2019, 15:34
Feb 20, 2019, 09:35
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Amil04 wrote: ..a friend of mine told me it was more to do with the fact it was a diesel only plant. Diesel’s gonna be gone by 2022? I’ll have to check this..I can’t see electric’s going to be any better. Nobody questions why people need to drive around so much. Just where is all the traffic going and why? Freight on Rail! I understand they make both diesel and petrol Civics. Electric cars are in their infancy but they have to be the way forward. Someone I know suggested perhaps they can be built with solar panels in the roof so they will self generate energy - we still have the power of the sun. Amil, you say nobody questions why people need to drive so much ... I do, and always have done in various debates, though understand if you live in a village where bus services have been cut you have to have a car to survive. I personally don't own a car, use trains, buses, shoes/feet and if there weren't so many cars on the road would cycle a lot more, though freely admit accepting lifts from friends when I want to get to more remote places. Swindon will recover from loosing Honda, I am sure those workers with engineering skills will find work elsewhere. I understand (though never fully believe anything these days) that the electric Mini will be built in Swindon at the BMW factory which predates Honda in by about thirty years when it was British Leyland.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Edited Feb 20, 2019, 10:59
Feb 20, 2019, 10:56
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Amil04 wrote: ..a friend of mine told me it was more to do with the fact it was a diesel only plant. Diesel’s gonna be gone by 2022? I’ll have to check this..I can’t see electric’s going to be any better. Nobody questions why people need to drive around so much. Just where is all the traffic going and why? Freight on Rail! To me, this is the biggest problem surrounding Brexit. Nobody seems able to stick to the facts and instead must push outright lies to further a position. That friend of yours is either lying to you. Or is pushing a lie onto you without bothering to check it. Then you passed it on here without bothering to check it either. And it's not hard to check. The reality is that Honda are restructuring and the EU's new Free Trade Agreement with Japan means they are re-evaluating their global manufacturing base. Cars built in Japan will have tariff-free access to the EU market in 2021; cars built in the UK will not, assuming brexit happens. This is clearly one factor in the decision, even though Honda are too politically sensitive to make that statement. There are other factors aside from Brexit no doubt. But "diesel" is not one of them. The Financial Times contacted them and put that directly to them. The article itself is paywalled, but the FT's chief political correspondent tweeted the headline figures: “For financial year 2018/19, the breakdown of cars built at Honda of the UK Manufacturing Ltd is Diesel 6% and Petrol 94%.” https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1097629287782514688 “For financial year 2018/19, the breakdown of engines built at Honda of the UK Manufacturing Ltd is Diesel 12% and Petrol 88%.” https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1097630309120647170 So to clarify. You posted that it was a "diesel only plant" based on hearsay. In fact, only 6% of cars produced there last year were diesel. Again -- Honda are NOT blaming Brexit on the plant closure. They talk about "global restructuring" and "reassessing market access". But if the last of those is not a code for "brexit" then I don't know what it is... and I'm very sceptical that a plant that Honda invested hugely in, just 3 years ago, would be getting closed as part of the "global restructure" if it was NOT for brexit. ---------- (edited for spelling right after posting, and adding tweet URLs for source)
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Amil04 447 posts |
Feb 20, 2019, 11:23
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That was very lazy of me not to check. But now we know.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Feb 20, 2019, 11:24
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You may have noticed that in the avalanche of closures and re-locations the firms are very often anxious to say Brexit was not a factor or not a major one - and yet, a year or two ago every one of them was saying Brexit would be a disaster. They must have been spoken to. Governments have many ways of pressurising companies to issue the "right" press release. The historians are going to have a field day with all this one day. Have you seen Led by Donkeys on Twitter. They've been putting up billboards quoting the pro-Remain statements of all the Brexiteers in the Government. Terrible.
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Amil04 447 posts |
Edited Feb 20, 2019, 11:47
Feb 20, 2019, 11:46
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..to clarify, it’s called being wrong..not ‘pushing an outright lie to further position.’ It was a way of bringing the diesel issue into the conversation. I don’t think any friend would intentionally lie but ..ar..forget it.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Edited Feb 20, 2019, 11:52
Feb 20, 2019, 11:51
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Amil04 wrote: ..to clarify, it’s called being wrong..not ‘pushing an outright lie to further position.’ It was a way of bringing the diesel issue into the conversation. I don’t think any friend would intentionally lie but ..ar..forget it. Sorry, but that's just horseshit. Where did "diesel only" plant come from. Someone said that phrase and it was a LIE when they said it. There's no possible way of somehow "mixing up a plant that's 6% diesel with one that's diesel-only". Explain to me how that "mistake" was made please. Because otherwise it's a lie. And I'm fucking tired of tip-toeing around liars on important political and ecological issues. if you post something to a public forum, have the decency to check it's true. If you can't be arsed to do that; then don't get miffed if people think you're lying. EDIT: *Especially* on subjects where LOTS of people clearly ARE lying in public.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Edited Feb 20, 2019, 11:56
Feb 20, 2019, 11:56
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PS to the above... As it happens, I know exactly where this lie started (or at least one version of it). Some blogger on the auto-industry posted a misleading comment that hard-brexiteer "journalist" Julia Hartley-Brewer tweeted a lie about. She didn't even stick to the original blogger's misleading comment; she took it even further and just made shit up. Now people are repeating her lie without checking. Given that she has a track-record of lying about Brexit; I don't have any problem suggesting those repeating her lies are doing just that... repeating lies.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Feb 20, 2019, 12:40
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Repeating lies in all innocence (which I've done thousands of times in my life) is not being a liar. Will the Hon Member please withdraw the unparliamentary phrase. ;)
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Feb 20, 2019, 13:11
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nigelswift wrote: Repeating lies in all innocence (which I've done thousands of times in my life) is not being a liar. Will the Hon Member please withdraw the unparliamentary phrase. ;) Really? Anyone at all fancy sticking to the facts? I didn't call him a liar. I accused him of exactly what you just said; "repeating lies". I also cautioned in my original post, that if someone repeats lies about a contentious issue on a public forum; an issue about which lots of people ARE lying, and we know this; then don't be surprised if people DO think you're lying. It's not an unreasonable thought in the context. But I don't know that he is; and so never said he was. I simply stated that he is repeating damaging lies without bothering to fact check. And on issues like this (or Climate Change or anything else really important) that's not a million miles away from actual lying in my view.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Edited Feb 20, 2019, 13:17
Feb 20, 2019, 13:17
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And I'm sorry if this comes across as prickly. But another friend of mine just got told today that his contract will not be renewed because of "uncertainty about the future status of Northern Ireland". He just had his second kid and is considering emigrating. So I'm watching as a bunch of rich fucking liars in the UK rip apart MY country, and watching as 52% of the UK population goes along with this bullshit for reasons that look mostly like xenophobia to me. I have a friend in London from the Balkans who is leaving the UK (and she had her entire life there) because of this bullshit and the open racism she's increasingly dealing with since the referendum (lots of "Why haven't you gone home yet?" and "I thought we got rid of you lot"). So am I angry? I'm fucking livid. And sorry if that leaks into my posts sometimes.
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