Lord Lucan
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Re: putting the record, ahem, straight (pt1)
Sep 18, 2003, 11:49
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"So why ARE we on this side issue of "gays and rap"?"
Because someone bought it up and we're discussing it like adults, I thought.
"It seems to me "sex" and "race" are the key issues in rap music. I think you and everyone else harping on the "gay thing" are injecting your own agendas."
You might think that, but to me it's not a 'side issue', it's very important. And if by 'injecting your own agendas' you mean having an opinion on the issue I'll happily admit to that.
"I guess maybe it boils down to whose ox is getting gored -- we all have knee-jerk reactions to certain issues. Some people compulsively defend or attack some groups vs. others."
Well, excuse me for sticking up for myself. You really don't have a clue what it's like do you?
Being a gay man OF COURSE I'm going to defend myself. It's obvious people like you won't bother. What do you expect me to do? Just think 'Oh, it's not that big an issue. I can't be bothered if rappers carry on with their homophobia.' Be real.
Like I said previously you obviously think this is an irrelevant issue. But you're not gay so you haven't got a clue what it feels like to be attacked this way (I did try to expain how it feels earlier). The percentage of gay people in the population has got NOTHING to do with whether it's a issue worthy of discussion or not.
I would talk about mysogyny in rap if I was a woman and felt more qualfied to discuss it. However, as a gay man obviously I feel much more qualified to dicuss homophobia in rap.
Your logic seems to be that the smaller the minority the less point there is discussing hatred aimed at that minority. That's very warped logic.
And I think it's disgraceful of you to just brush aside what I and others have said as 'harping on the gay thing' (by 'the gay thing' I assume you mean the hatred aimed at gay people) or a 'knee-jerk reaction'. Either be part of the discussion or don't, but stop just coming back by saying we're 'harping' on the issue. You're only barely disguising your contempt for those of us willing to stand up for what we believe is right. I just wish you could show a bit more empathy.
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Lord Lucan
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Re: putting the record, ahem, straight (pt1)
Sep 18, 2003, 11:56
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The numbers aren't that important (though I do think you're underestimating). But surely your point that Kinsey's research is 50 years old only supports the argument that the real figure could be higher. 50 years ago people were far less likely to admit to either being gay or having a gay experience than they are now.
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Lord Lucan
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Re: "Gangsta"
Sep 18, 2003, 12:10
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Aaah! Come now. Don't be so old fashioned with your 'real instruments' patter, Lawrence! So quaint! Heheh.
Like all music genres there are good and bad in there. I for one can see the talent in using turntables and samplers creatively and being able to rhyme and deliver it well, say something relevant to your own and other people's lives and keep their attention and earn their respect. There's definitely talent in that. But just as in rock or any other type of music there are also lots of lazy chancers with no talent clogging up the airwaves and music charts with their massive egos fronting no substance. Seeing the difference is the key.
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cancer boy
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No Pakistanis
Sep 18, 2003, 13:20
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is actually a pretty dodgy song ("I don't dig no Pakistanis taking all the peoples jobs" and suchlike) , but I don't think Mr McCartney meant the lyrics seriously (I assume it was a pisstake) and he certainly had no intention of releasing it. Then again there have been apocryphal reports that when he sang the later version "Get Back" in the studio he kept looking meaningfully at Yoko Ono so who knows!
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Nat
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I'm with Lawrence!!
Sep 18, 2003, 13:23
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I like a good 4 piece beat combo me!! ;o) Proper music none of this plinky plonky shouting stuff....
A nice tune does me. And I do like a bit of Abba, but you have to have an alternative occasionally!!
Sigh....
Nat xx
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anthonyqkiernan
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Nae luck Lawrence
Sep 18, 2003, 14:01
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There goes your credibility, mate.
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Nat
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Re: Nae luck Lawrence
Sep 18, 2003, 14:05
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;op<raassssssssppppppppppppppp
Tut... youf of today...
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Lawrence
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Re: "Gangsta"
Sep 18, 2003, 19:43
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I just don't think much of this rap music is creative, much less enlightening or particularily interesting.
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Dog 3000
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Re: "Gangsta"
Sep 19, 2003, 23:06
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But . . . what "this" rap music are you talking about?
Of course it's "real music" -- seeing a good rapper freestyle live is as awe-inspiring as watching any "viruoso musician."
There are a few clods who "just shout" but those buys have more in common with "J-Lo, inc." than with actual "musicians." In any genre you got yer Robbie Williamses and then you got yer John Lennons.
But last time I checked it was OK for people to have different tastes in music . . . :-)
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Dog 3000
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Re: putting the record, ahem, straight (pt1)
Sep 19, 2003, 23:24
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Sorry if I have offended you. As you put it, I too thought we were "discussing issues as adults."
I am not "attacking" you, so you don't need to "defend yourself" from me.
And the point is I don't think Ice Cube or these "rappers (in general)" you keep refering to are attacking you either. They are probably less of a threat to you than someone like the pope, who is taken a lot more seriously by a lot more people with his "homophobic views."
And I totally agree % of population in whatever "minority" is irrelevant. My point about mysogyny was just that IS a real valid complaint about rap, because it is a major issue "in rap" -- something a LOT of rappers talk about a LOT of the time. "Gays" are not a major topic "in rap music." I am not trying to say it is a minor and irrelevant issue "in general" I'm saying it's a minor issue "in rap music." There are movies and TV shows that have "homophobic moments" . . . that doesn't mean TV or movies are "homophobic in general."
And as with any "discourse" there are multiple points of view within "rap" on any issue.
For instance: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/gay_macho030619.html
The ONLY thing I'm disagreeing with you on is viewing rap through a lens that distorts the "homophobia" quotient. Muslims are generally pretty "homophobic" (Ice Cube is not alone in this) . . . but certainly not all of them are . . . is it fair to paint everybody with the same brush? Do you raise the "homophobe issue" every time Islam or Catholicism comes up? I don't know you, so maybe you do.
Bottom line: I'm not agreeing with or excusing any "homophobic messenge", not at all. I just wish you'd be a little more specific when your "defending yourself from the messenger." Which homophobe is the problem? Because "rappers" are not all the same.
I suspect a lot of the "argument" may have to do with differences in our taste in music.
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