cancer boy
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Re: frank discussion
Sep 16, 2003, 13:39
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It's a lame name but he is a cool guy. See Re:Search Pranks issue for evidence, good mate of Jello Biafra's.
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cancer boy
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Re: Macho music
Sep 16, 2003, 13:45
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Just out of interest, what homophobic songs has Eminem done? I'm not that familiar with his work so I've only heard "the hits".
Anyhoo, Ice Cube etc. became members of the Nation of Islam, which teaches that homosexuals are sick and evil, in addition to their "white people are devils created 6000 years ago by the devil" fantasies. For instance on the Muhammad Speaks website there's a "hilarious" cartoon of a limp-wristed white man saying "well, I don't FEEL sick" captioned "The sick homosexual". Makes their feelings pretty clear on the subject. So fuck 'em.
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Lawrence
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Re: Macho music
Sep 16, 2003, 14:59
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Actually, Dog, I think I understand what you are talking about... Of course alot of Reggae (I'm not necessarily condemning the whole genre since I do admire Marley and Lee Perry) has been much more violently anti-gay. I have heard at least Buju Banton had changed his stripes on that issue. Of course my ex-lover thinks the homophobia came from Jamaica's colonial rule...
In my teenage years I was homophobic myself because I was unsure about my sexuality. And since I was catholic and had been in a baptist school for two years I belived my sexuality was morally wrong. It was only until my faith shattered when I decided fuck it, if I don't believe in christ anymore why should I believe in sin?
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Lawrence
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Re: Macho music
Sep 16, 2003, 15:08
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Of course, that's another reason why I wasn't accepting of my sexuality -- I didn't want to seem efeminent. I'd see the Mad magazine parodies of gays as being limp-wristed and into flower-arrainging, and I couldn't see myself that way. At the same time I'd get off on pictures of men in uniform and yet, although I was a bit ashamed of it, I didn't see it as gay at the time.
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Toni Torino
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Re: Macho music
Sep 16, 2003, 16:14
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"My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge/That'll stab you in the head whether you're a fag or les/Or the homosex, hermaph or a trans-a-ves/Pants or dress/Hate fags? The answer's yes. ..."
From "Criminal"
That's pretty fuckin' offensive......
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Toni Torino
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Re: Macho music
Sep 16, 2003, 16:17
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Lawrence, I don't know if Buju Banton ever renounced his homophobia, I thought he just got religion. I'm prepared to be stood corrected though, cos I don't know fer sure.....
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cancer boy
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Re: Macho music
Sep 16, 2003, 17:07
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He's a charmer isn't he.
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Dog 3000
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Re: Macho music
Sep 16, 2003, 19:12
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Lord et al:
I'm not so much trying to say it's OK to "bash gays" in lyrics, so much as I think your focusing all your criticism on this one issue is missing some of the larger context. Yes, it's a bad idea for minorities to slam other minorities. Yet it happens. "Gangsta rap" is not about "the way it should be" so much as "the fucked-up way it is right now." That's part of their whole aesthetic.
And if you listen to Beatles unreleased bootlegs they had a tune called "No Pakistanis" and another called "Negro In Reserve" -- but it'd be pretty inapropriate to rant about racism anytime someone mentions the Beatles, right? It's not like one or two jokey lyrics negates everything else they ever did.
I think you're doing something similar with Ice Cube -- he's a tremendous songwriting/storytelling talent and you try to make it sound like all he ever did was put down gay people. In fact, I'd like to see some of these awful lyrics quoted -- I own most of his albums and I don't remember him mentioning the subject very often.
What immediately comes to my mind are:
"No Vaseline" -- a dis at NWA and his former manager where he says they deserve to be anally raped without lube (and also set on fire and burned to death, and so on.) It's a lot of metaphorical hyperbole.
"The Product" -- a prisoner laments that he is "tired of seeing young brothers get their assholes torn out." Prison rape.
And while we're still on the subject -- I seem to recall Public Enemy had some songs that were 100% about gays -- "Meet The G That Killed Me" (about how gays spread AIDS) for instance. Again -- is it fair to PE to harp on "gay bashing" anytime their name is brought up? Aren't they about a lot more than that?
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Dog 3000
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Re: Macho music
Sep 16, 2003, 19:27
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Quote: "For instance on the Muhammad Speaks website there's a "hilarious" cartoon of a limp-wristed white man saying "well, I don't FEEL sick" captioned "The sick homosexual"."
That's what I'm talking about. The "White" is defined as the opposite of the "Black" (specifically in hypermasculine terms) -- we are "MEN" therefore they are "less than men" and so on. This is basically taking the age old process of stereotyping and turning it on it's head.
Is this imagery "racist"? You bet. Is there a few hundred years of systematic de-masculinization of Black males providing an underlying context for such attitudes? Again yes.
When Muddy Waters sang "I'm A Man!" what do you think he was trying to reclaim? The subtext is: "don't you dare call me 'boy'."
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Lawrence
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Re: Macho music
Sep 16, 2003, 22:06
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I remember Chuck D. later saying homosexuality didn't bother him.
Of course, I did have the problem of gangsta rap's overall message -- I tended to think they were advertising criminal activity. But I could be wrong, and although I'm not a fan of rap in general, it doesn't bother me so much at the moment... People can say what they want, and anyways if I keep complaining about 50 Cent while I enjoy listening to Whitehouse and the Brainbombs, it does make me look like a hypocrite.
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