|
Unsung Forum » Worst Stage Names |
Log In to post a reply
|
|
|
|
| Topic View: Flat | Threaded | |
|
Lawrence 9547 posts |
Sep 16, 2003, 22:13
|
||
I think I remember the Black Liberation groups of the sixties would use derogatory terms used to describe gays when they talked of white people. I did hear that when Jean Genet gave his support for some Black Liberation groups they stopped using the anti-gay language.
|
|||
|
Lawrence 9547 posts |
Sep 16, 2003, 22:14
|
||
Actually, I don't either.
|
|||
Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Sep 16, 2003, 22:56
|
||
|
The whole thing about "gangsta" rap (as opposed to other subgenres of hip-hop) was that they tried to describe life in the most "real" and "street" terms possible. The point wasn't to describe a vision of utopia, but to describe the nastiness of "here and now." It is certainly controversial to sing about killing cops, selling drugs and all of that stuff but if you ask them they would never say they were trying to encourage it, they were just relating what was already happening out there. There is a very strong political subtext to all of it. Here's an example of Ice Cube "glamorizing" drug dealers and gang-banging: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/icecube/whatcanido.html Worth reading in it's entirity to "get the message", even if you have trouble with the slang.
|
|||
|
Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Sep 16, 2003, 22:59
|
||
Also note at the end he list one of The White Man's crimes as "sodomy of the Black Man" . . .
|
|||
Lord Lucan 2702 posts |
Sep 17, 2003, 13:09
|
||
|
Well, I can see I’m going to have to repeat myself again, because I obviously wasn’t making my point clearly enough. "I'm not so much trying to say it's OK to "bash gays" in lyrics, so much as I think your focusing all your criticism on this one issue is missing some of the larger context." Don’t be so patronising. I am aware of the ‘larger context’. I’m only focusing on this issue because this happens to be the topic of conversation here at this moment. It wasn’t even me that bought it up as an issue. We could talk about misogyny too if you want, for example. And I never accused you of ‘trying to say it’s OK to "bash gays" in lyrics’. I wouldn’t be that bloody stupid, so stop trying to portray me as rabidly single-minded, thank you . "Yes, it's a bad idea for minorities to slam other minorities. Yet it happens. "Gangsta rap" is not about "the way it should be" so much as "the fucked-up way it is right now." That's part of their whole aesthetic." And I repeat yet again. I KNOW this, but that doesn’t mean it should go unchallenged. Shrugging shoulders and saying well it just happens isn’t gonna help things progress is it? The context is not of "the fucked-up way it is right now" being presented to question the situation. It’s expressing hatred in a way that PERPETUATES it. It’s being part of the problem rather than part of the solution. I think the Beatles thing is a bad example. A title "No Pakistanis" suggests to me that it’s actually a direct critique of the racism of UK pub landlords. "No Pakistanis, No Irish, No Gypsies" was a common sign on pub doors in sixties Britain. This is, if anything a good example of showing "the fucked-up way it is right now" and it being a criticism.
|
|||
|
Lord Lucan 2702 posts |
Sep 17, 2003, 13:10
|
||
|
You said: "I think you're doing something similar with Ice Cube -- he's a tremendous songwriting/storytelling talent and you try to make it sound like all he ever did was put down gay people." Complete rubbish. You haven’t read what I wrote above when I said: "I wasn't singling out one line of Ice Cube's either. I hardly need to. There's enough crap spouted by others." I AM NOT SINGLING OUT ICE CUBE! LOOK BACK OVER THE THREAD AND YOU’LL SEE IT WASN’T ME THAT EVEN MENTIONED HIM AS A HOMOPHOBE. Do I really need to make it any clearer? Neither did I say that any of these people (including Ice Cube) aren’t talented or good at what they do. They’re doing a good job of showing a world in which white, conservative society manages to keep black people ghettoised and economically and socially oppressed. It’s just that I have a problem with casual and violent homophobia. I’m not so fucking one-dimensional that I think "all he ever did was put down gay people". Give me some credit. "And while we're still on the subject -- I seem to recall Public Enemy had some songs that were 100% about gays -- "Meet The G That Killed Me" (about how gays spread AIDS) for instance. Again -- is it fair to PE to harp on "gay bashing" anytime their name is brought up? Aren't they about a lot more than that?" No, and I didn’t and wouldn’t. I do realise that all these artists are about much more than this issue and it’s not fair to be accused of "harping on "gay bashing" anytime their name is brought up". You’re misrepresenting me. But I will say, if you write whole tunes like that DON’T be surprised that people will take offence and want to know why you’ve done it. I get the impression you think this whole issue is an irrelevant and trivial thing. Well, I don’t think it’s the most burning issue in the world either, but if you were a gay man you might be inclined to stick up for yourself and question all this casual homophobia. Especially when you start hearing it coming out of the mouths of teenagers who live in your neighbourhood who’ve been influenced by their rap idols to shout abuse at people in the street. You might then start to think it’s not quite so innocuous as presenting "the fucked-up way it is right now" and that it’s actively making the problem worse.
|
|||
Squid Tempest 8763 posts |
Sep 17, 2003, 13:14
|
||
|
Well said LL, I'm right with you on this. Mind you, why anyone should try to justify homophobic crap AT ALL is beyond me. Chuck the bloody lot in the deepest pit you can find...
|
|||
|
Lawrence 9547 posts |
Sep 17, 2003, 15:25
|
||
Yeah, I think I was already saying that I realised the whole 'gangsta' thing wasn't a glamorisation. It did bother me that many such rappers wore expensive clothing and stuff as though they were glamorising gang lifestyle. Of course I might be wrong about that too.
|
|||
|
Toni Torino 2299 posts |
Sep 17, 2003, 17:00
|
||
Me too, LL; homophobia is homophobia, there's nothing that justifies it, including poverty or racial intolerance. To justify it by saying its hip-hop's 'aesthetic' and 'it's the way it is' is such a cop-out. What are they scared of? There are far more important things they could be focusing on unstead of gay-bashing. They lose credibility, in my eyes, when they do this.
|
|||
|
Toni Torino 2299 posts |
Sep 17, 2003, 17:44
|
||
Heh.... you can't even say, "but his mum loves him...."....
|
| Pages: 13 – [ Previous | 1 … 8 9 10 11 12 13 | Next ] | Add a reply to this topic |
|
|
|
| Unsung Forum Index | |
