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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Apr 04, 2003, 16:33
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"I cited Afghanistan not as a US success story but as an example of the fact that modern history suggests that brutal dictatorships are self perpetuating until such time as they are forced out." Just like in Russia, East Germany, South Africa perhaps?
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ron 706 posts |
Apr 04, 2003, 17:56
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dunno 'bout babylon, but a professor told us that in his opinion civilization began in the lower mesopotamian valley with the advent of "architecture on a monumental basis"... course he was an architectural historian so he could'a been biased... just find it ironic that if's it's true, civilization could end where it began... that's a concentric circle for ya... x
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Annexus Quam 926 posts |
Apr 05, 2003, 10:00
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Civilization already ended the moment that war became entertainment for morons, smug and complacent in their armchairs as long as they’re on the other side of the fence, happy to receive their daily doses of inane tv-show ‘reality’, where blood’s not allowed to be shown (in case it causes anti-war panic), the war cannot be critized and American artists like Dixie Chicks are having their records burnt in piles Krystall-nacht-style. If Bush is voted back into power again then my ‘inane theory’ will have been confirmed. I’m nervously waiting for that moment.
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jazz 13 posts |
Apr 10, 2003, 16:40
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What with graphic western media portrayals of the nasty side of war - blood on the lenses, fly blown corpses in the Guardian yesterday etc What with the Iraqi people welcoming the yanks into Baghdad and Saddams statue pulled down. What with coalition troops finding torture and rape camps with equipment to strap children up and feed them into mincing machines. I must admit yesterdays events made the whole thing a little more acceptable than it previously was. I thought there might have been a bit of debate about this - but no - we've moved onto local elections - the war stance of local counsellors who make decisions on such important foreign policy issues such as the granting of planning permission to build a new village hall are suddenly very interesting?
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Apr 10, 2003, 16:55
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I don't think All the mutilated children I found myself seeing on tv were maimed by their own people. Are these dreadful things given centre stage because it's even more important now to justify the war? - it's looking hopeless that they're ever going to uncover any weapons of mass destruction. So there must have been other reasons why we stormed in there. Ooh yes we did it for humanitarian reasons.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Apr 10, 2003, 16:56
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Yes, the Iraqi's that have survived will one day, perhaps, be better off and a free-er race of people. But it could have been stopped years ago ... 20 years ago ... but that didn't suit the USuk political agenda did it? You really think that this was done to 'liberate' the Iraqi people? Oh dear! If that is the case then the USuk can get the fuck out and let the rest of the world clean up after them. The only involvement the USuk should have is footing the bill! The USuk have just gone and kicked some major ass to get their own way. Is that the lesson we want the Iraqi people using as a role model?
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Apr 10, 2003, 17:03
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Is that the one the Americans gave them in the first place, by encouraging them to attack Iran?
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RiotGibbon 1527 posts |
Apr 10, 2003, 17:12
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we were on both local elections *and* the horrors of Saddam's regime ages ago ... and I don't think you've read the questionnaire - a few bits and bobs on local community relations. There's no borders, there's a massive muslim population in this country, and so there's going to be ramifications, which do *involve* local councillors ... and it never hurts to find out what elected representatives think, especially when they're seeking re-election ... RG
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Apr 10, 2003, 17:15
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"and it never hurts to find out what elected representatives think" They can think?
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Annexus Quam 926 posts |
Apr 10, 2003, 19:42
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A girl was telling me yesterday how she'd always supported the war because Saddam'd been using his own citizens as human shields all along. She'd always believed that ALL dead Irakis had been killed by Saddam himself by putting them in the wrong places, not by misled US bombs (cos they're the good ones, see) I realized how much crap people can believe from their daily dose of TV. Obviously, if someone is bent on seeing the world in black and white then fair enough for them. Picture the scene - of all the countries that pose a danger to world stability, the US pick the one they know best (NB the US and the UK still keep the receipts and expiry dates of the chemical weapons they sold to their erstwhile ally Saddam) and decide to attack the most battered country, as it's the one most likely to create the expected hollymediawood success story in the least expected time (3 weeks so far). Make a few bucks in the process of re-building and make sure the financial links that France and Russia used to have are redirected towards the New Masters. Everyone's happy in the States and Bush hopes to get voted into power again. Another fairy-tale for the bulk of inane tales in US folk memory. As with Afghanistan, triple the number of innocents as the ones killed in the Twin Towers have had to be sacrificed. Those that died were poor souls that happened to be in the way of the fickle US juggernaut - what's worse, they don't count as victims as war has a habit of making murdered people 'part of the package of war'. And everyone accepts this. Anyone who digs a bit deeper in the history of the Middle East region knows the scenes of jubilation are not for the US BUT for the decades-long regime that's gone. 'Someone had to do the job', plankton-brained Bush-clones say, but the cost of lives and destruction (and the pent-up US hatred that this has created) exceeds any justification for a change of regime. On top of all that, now come the bloodiest moments as people, both Western and Muslim begin to fight for the biggest slice and as those that are hiding turn from soldier to suicide bomber. No-one round the world trusts a superpower that is capable of anything and goes anywhere unilaterally without respect for other cultures. The war in Irak has just started. And the US is losing it.
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