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Mainstream media starts to wake up on climate change fraud
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Edited Feb 05, 2010, 07:16
Re: Mainstream media starts to wake up on climate change fraud
Feb 05, 2010, 02:35
DarkMagus wrote:
Now I really know you're lost! You are giving dubious simplistic black and white examples & extrapolating to real world complex ones e.g. climate.


You're partially correct. I am simplifying things. This is a discussion board, not PhD thesis, and I'm limited in both time and available characters. I'm also trying to put what I understand in simple terms, rather than getting myself or my audience bogged down with the minutae. Also, I'm a layman, not a scientist. I have a general understanding, but I'm not an expert. I am an expert driver though, should you wish to pick me up on this point. Not being an expert doesn't prevent people from having enough understanding to be able to drive.

DarkMagus wrote:
You don't know how the various factors (yes including the sun & CO2) interact in the Earth to drive climate one way or the other over the long term. Nobody does! I'll reiterate: the starting conditions are not known precisely & the interactions are poorly understood. Which of those two statements is false? Even if the second IS false, my arguement holds.


OK. Here's a jug of water. I don't know how hot it is. Now I'm going to put it in the microwave for 2 minutes. Sorry but I don't precisely understand how microwaves affect things. Something to do with radiation, isn't it? I am just a humble nobody after all.

So I don't know the starting conditions, and I don't understand how it works. Will the water in the jug get hotter? Or is it impossible for me to predict?

Yup. I'm giving a simplified answer again. Do you understand the point I'm trying to make? If so, do you accept that it's not always necessary to know the precise starting positions or the precise nature of the inteactions in order to form a general idea of how things behave?

DarkMagus wrote:
To believe it's as simple as the sun being a little brighter or if CO2 (a minor greenhouse gas BTW) rises a little the planet will get warmer is naive.


I'm not sure I understand this bit. Are you saying that I am naive because I believe things to be as simple as a brighter sun?

I started off that bit by making it clear that it was a simple example. Not that it encompassed the entire canon of climate science. So, you're chasing after a strawman on that one.

The video showed that CO2 absorbs infra red energy. Yes? And when the proportion of CO2 was increased, the absorption of infra red energy also increased, yes? You did watch it and see that this is the case, right?

So what happens to this energy DM? It doesn't just disappear. It gets turned from one form to another, in accordance with the law of conservation of energy. It becomes heat, which dissipates through the atmosphere, causing an increase in the temperature of the atmosphere. If you think otherwise, and you can prove your belief, then you're on course for becoming the most famous person of the 21st century.

DarkMagus wrote:
Not even a holder of a Nobel award for climate science know how it all works or can predict it.

Keep digging if it pleases you.


Nah. This is the last I'm going to say in the issue with you. I do understand the point you're making, but don't agree with it. You, on the other hand, seem to be unable to grasp the point I'm making, even when I try to break it down into bite-size portions. So, no. I'm not going to dig any further.

Probably.
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Re: Mainstream media starts to wake up on climate change fraud (DarkMagus)		 Replies:
Re: Mainstream media starts to wake up on climate change fraud (Squid Tempest)
Re: Mainstream media starts to wake up on climate change fraud (DarkMagus)
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