pooley
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 18:08
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Merrick wrote: pooley wrote: It shows my frustration at a thread gone thin at the edges
So, again, I'd say that if you've nothing to say then say nothing.
Putting fresh posts on a thread you think is over and done with kind of defeats the object.
No, I diasgree - I was making a point. You may not be happy with the way I made it, and my frustration leaked through , but I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing again.
Sorry.
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Vybik Jon
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 18:12
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Serious question - do you think Irish people are thick?
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pooley
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Edited Feb 10, 2009, 18:34
Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 18:33
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no, why?
i edited out my first response for reasons that may become clear
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Merrick
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Edited Feb 10, 2009, 19:07
Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 19:07
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pooley wrote: I was making a point.
Oh yes, so you were. That someone who objects to all inceidences of racist language has 'a skin too few and a sociology O level'.
How very helpful to the discussion, and my, how it makes you bathed in the golden light of approval. Now everyone who disagreed with you earlier on agrees, and those of us who were still having intelligent debate have decided that it's all over.
Again, I'd suggest thinking before you post.
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Vybik Jon
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Edited Feb 10, 2009, 19:43
Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 19:43
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I didn't think you would, but for me the treatment of Irish people in general is often the clearest example of why low-intent/casual racism is a problem. The fact that it's a very local matter helps.
The poor education of many Irish people for decades was a deliberate policy by the British. The popularisation of Irish people as thick proved very useful to the British when those same thick people began to rebel. The songs, the cartoons and cetainly the jokes portrayed Irish people as lesser human beings and sometimes nigh-on animals.
It's a shameful episode in our history and repetition of the jokes and other representations of thick Irish people allows the vociferous racists to flourish.
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Stevo
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 21:05
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no more so than others. possibly in not getting rid of a corrupt government & ensuring Erris don't get exploited.
have met some people who I don't think capable of thought. Lots in high payed jobs but that kind of mindlessness is true of that grouping everywhere innit?
also know why this was the isle of saints and scholars & met plenty who'd count as a legacy of that.
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Popel Vooje
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 11, 2009, 09:47
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If anyone mentions thick Irish people I ususally find that giving them a copy of "Finnegan's Wake" helps dispel the stereotype.
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shanshee_allures
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Edited Feb 11, 2009, 14:33
Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 11, 2009, 14:09
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Merrick wrote:
shanshee_allures wrote:
Then along come the white middle classes speaking on behalf of an entire people and say 'oh it's ok for THEM to say that word'... What do they mean by THEM?
I think that's pretty clear. 'Them' refers to the people who were denigrated by the word in question.
As a white person my use of nigger is totally different that a black person using it.
I read that Nina Simone could not STAND the use of the word nigger by black people. She saw it as retarted and negative and counter to all she and her generation were trying to achieve. She saw the use of it in hip hop as one way of keeping undereducated and under confident young black men 'in their place' so to speak, sort of guaranteeing an audience and achieveing nothing. She saw some anger but a self serving type that justs wafts into infinity. Wish I could find an article on that.
She's not 'right' and neither are they, there can only be one 'right' answer here surely.
As for the dolly that caused all this...I remember them being on jam jars and in shops, and I swear on me kid's life I always saw them as the double of this guy
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m104/markbc79/MartinShaw_Pros.jpg
Yes, I did watch that cheesy nonsense as a kid
:-)
I didn't connect the rag dolls with black people at all. That was done for me later on unfortunately.
TBH, one phrase I find more offensive than most others is 'Uncle Tom'. It suggests there are ways us 'whites' expect black people to behave.
Bit like the stick Cond Rice got for using hair straighteners. Bloody shocking I'd say.
x
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Moon Cat
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 11, 2009, 14:45
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Popel Vooje wrote: If anyone mentions thick Irish people I ususally find that giving them a copy of "Finnegan's Wake" helps dispel the stereotype.
I dunno - it's not much for correct punctuation is it? ;^)
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stray
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Edited Feb 11, 2009, 15:58
Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 11, 2009, 15:29
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shanshee_allures wrote:
TBH, one phrase I find more offensive than most others is 'Uncle Tom'. It suggests there are ways us 'whites' expect black people to behave.
It doesnt mean that though, but it is an offensive term. Its an insult black people use against other black people who are acting subservient to whites in order to better themselves in some way. It comes from Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel 'Uncle Toms Cabin'. The character isn't like that, but he gets portrayed that way.
Edit : What I'm saying is, it's use doesn't deconstruct to saying that there is a way white people expect black people to behave. It points to a time when the subservient role was accepted, sure, but it's usage is more of an accusation of erm... selling out. Although it can be seen as being derogatory to whites, in that it kinda says we have expectations of being superior, that to me is a big stretch.
The one that bugs me, even if it is a US term I've heard it used here is 'White Trash'. The history and use of that term basically suggests that Black people are lower than trash. Edit : But then I'm probably on a stretch there too.
The Professionals is a guilty pleasure in this house, you're not alone in that, "You doing anything later when you finish here love ?"
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