pooley
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 15:42
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Squid Tempest wrote: suave harv wrote: My Mum says 'Wog's house' and I think 'aww blesss!'.
You're more tolerant than me then. When my grandad used to say things like that it made me cringe. I would complain to my dad and he'd have a word with him.
I can just imagine what your dad said too, something along the lines of "Can you watch what you say in your own house in front of my son, he's got one skin too few and has just done a sociology O level - dangerous combination"
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Merrick
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 15:52
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pooley wrote: I can just imagine what your dad said too, something along the lines of "Can you watch what you say in your own house in front of my son, he's got one skin too few and has just done a sociology O level - dangerous combination"
That is a cheap shot that's beneath you. And please don't defend it by saying it was a joke, as it is missing the prerequisite of being funny.
Say something intelligent, or something funny, but if all you can find is a lame insult then please don't bother.
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Squid Tempest
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 15:57
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Thanks Merrick. Actually my dad told him that he was being racist. Didn't help much, I will admit. On the other hand my mum had similar conversations with her dad (my other grandad), and in his later years he saw the error of his ways, becoming stridently anti-racist. This shows the worth of having these conversations. Never write off the older generation as being too set in their ways to change.
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Squid Tempest
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Edited Feb 10, 2009, 15:58
Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 15:58
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My dad would take you to task (in no uncertain terms) for talking like that. He is the most left wing right on bloke I've known of his generation.
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Merrick
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 16:09
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suave harv wrote: Which is saying "no-one should say anything bad about anybody if it isn't true".
No, it's not saying that.
It's saying nobody should be criticised for something they didn't choose to do. Nobody should be attacked with a generalisation about whole groups of people that isn't true.
suave harv wrote: The difference is 'intent', and that's been discussed here loads anyway.
Yes it has, and yes, I agree that there are broadly two different kinds of use of discriminatory language.
But, as I said, the non-intent makes for a more fertile ground for the other kind.
Also, it normalises the language of discrimination, it reinforces the idea that we can just generalise about whole groups like that. It takes us further away from a society of equality.
It's notable that these things are deviations from white, english, able-bodied, maleness.
suave harv wrote: We (the carpenter & I) used to rib them, we were always shouting "there's too many Indians here and not enough cowboys". The Indians ribbed the Jamacians, no-one gave a shit.
But what happens between friends who know each other talking about one another is very different to what gets said about people who aren't there and/or people we don't know.
suave harv wrote: From what I've seen all the up-tightness about 'words' comes from 'white lefties' anyway
That may be what you've seen, but it is not the whole story by a long way. I have seen, innumberable times, non-whites attacking racist behaviour, as well as women and disabled people attacking behaviour that discriminates against them.
Yes, white people speak out against racism. And so they should. It's an issue for anyone interested in advancing a fair and just society. As people in the discriminated-against groups have, by definition, been disempowered, those in the dominator groups have more confidence and get listened to more.
suave harv wrote: Should I have berated him about his racist coment?
Yes, I think you should. As a friend you have his ear and he's not going to take it as a personal attack. As someone who's not a hate-filled bigot, I'm thinking it likely that he'd just not thought it through. I had the same thing with my brother using 'gay' to mean pathetic (he'd picked it up off his school-age kids).
I'd regard it as being like a driver who parks up on the pavement. They don't hate people with pushchairs or in wheelchairs, but they've just not thought it through. A word from someone and they don't do it any more, and they pass the idea on. The parking of pavements becomes less normalised and people in wheelchairs are not discriminated against like that as much.
suave harv wrote: He's 62, I'm 42, and I'd hope most people 22 wouldn't even know it used to be used in that way.
But they do. As well as being able to come up with new ones based on a paradigm that accepts such bigoted language. Again, I think of the modern usage of 'gay' to mean pathetic.
Because the beliefs based on supremacy are so pervasive, we are all carrying around attitudes and language we've picked up that perpetuate them, even if it's not what we feel in our hearts.
It's only by having such things challenged that we leave them behind. It doesn't take much thought and it makes for a more progressive environment for everyone.
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mojojojo
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 16:35
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Jesus. Bet you felt clever writing that.
x
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stray
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 17:04
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http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2136/dudegetoutls6.gif
Cheers.
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pooley
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 17:04
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mojojojo wrote: Jesus. Bet you felt clever writing that.
x
I did actually - but then I am often wrong.
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pooley
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 17:08
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Merrick wrote: pooley wrote: I can just imagine what your dad said too, something along the lines of "Can you watch what you say in your own house in front of my son, he's got one skin too few and has just done a sociology O level - dangerous combination"
That is a cheap shot that's beneath you. And please don't defend it by saying it was a joke, as it is missing the prerequisite of being funny.
Say something intelligent, or something funny, but if all you can find is a lame insult then please don't bother.
Actually, it wasn't a joke. Nor was it a very nice thing to say, but i'm not that sorry.
It shows my frustration at a thread gone thin at the edges, and is offensive.
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Merrick
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 10, 2009, 17:28
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pooley wrote: It shows my frustration at a thread gone thin at the edges
So, again, I'd say that if you've nothing to say then say nothing.
Putting fresh posts on a thread you think is over and done with kind of defeats the object.
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