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handofdave 3515 posts |
Edited Jan 23, 2008, 15:51
Jan 23, 2008, 15:48
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shanshee_allures wrote: they are a trio of lying smug opportunist gits like every other politician yes, and this artificial idea that we have that somehow their color automatically conveys and demands membership in some vast brotherhood of non-whites is ridiculous. And it's patronizing, too. Complaints range from 'they're 'betraying their race', or, they're 'house negroes'. If they were white, nobody'd be talking about race, they'd be focusing solely on the issues that require the most attention... namely, the terrible job the whole administration has done and the harm that's been done to the US and the world. It's ironically encouraging that there are ruthless Afro-American Republican corporate tyrants butchering the innards of the Federal Government. I mean, that was unheard of forty years ago. In a strangely related fashion, I suppose we should celebrate the realization of Dr. King's dream. People WILL be judged by their character and not the color of their skin, that's for sure.
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shanshee_allures 2563 posts |
Jan 23, 2008, 16:04
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Yup, utterly agree. One reason I find 'Uncle Tom' as said from a white person, one of the most disgusting, patronising phrases ever coined. Oh I want 'my' black people to behave... THIS way. Shoosht! Ach, too mich to get into I suppose. x
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jan 23, 2008, 21:33
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I've not had enough time in the last week to read all the threads, and the longer they are the more they daunted me. I'm only just catching up. It's a real pleasure to see how people reacted to Karl Max's provocations. Well done people for neither responding in kind nor being intimidated from replying. If that kind of stuff is tolerated then it will end up discouraging intelligent people with something valuable to say. Especially, i'm impressed with the Americans here for not getting personally aggrieved at some of the outrageous slurs thrown at you. Handofdave, you handled him really well, very measured, thoughtful, nothing insulting at all. So you made me laugh out loud when after he'd gone you wrote handofdave wrote: Good riddance to the jerk. thanks people. It's how we handle stuff like this that shows what a valuable place HH is.
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jan 23, 2008, 21:49
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Deepinder Cheema wrote: Tell me, what will Obama do if he gets elected. Will he make a difference, what is his manifesto, has he got one, who is paying the bills? this is the key thing. for all people talking about him benig such a hope (read: 'he's black'), or Clinton being such a hope (read:'she's a woman'), it doesn't matter. It's not about the colour of skin or the genitals at the top of your legs, but whose interests you serve. The leader is, at best, a figurehead. They work hard to come over well to people who feel themselves to be a good judge of character. But even if they were being genuinely likeable people, it makes no odds. Nobody gets elected to the American presidency without hundreds of millions of dollars donated to them. What do the donors think they're buying? ======== http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=892 Back in 1992, Al Gore wrote a superb book called ‘Earth in the Balance’ that laid out the challenge of climate chaos better than anyone else at the time. It was eerily prescient. He warned that global warming was making hurricanes far more intense, threatening American cities like New Orleans. He warned that Siberia’s peat bogs would melt, burping massive amounts of their stored greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. He warned that famine would increase across sub-Saharan Africa as traditional rainfall patterns were disrupted... So why did they move in the opposite direction? The temptation for journalists is to blame it on personal moral failure. Clinton and Gore are hypocrites, liars, the old story... The reality is less glib and more disturbing. Every American politician has to pay for their massive election campaigns, and there is one group waiting with open wallets and a few polite requests – the fossil fuel industry. Democrat or Republican, if you don’t lick the boots of the oil and gas companies, you never get the key to the White House. This legalised bribery is often so naked that many corporations give to both parties, to ensure whoever wins is in their debt. Anybody with environmental leanings is quickly tamed – 28 gas and oil companies gave to Al Gore’s election campaign, from BP Amoco to Enron, from Exxon to Chevron. Corporations like Occidental Petroleum paid for the Clinton-Gore inauguration, and stumped up an extra £50,000 after Gore personally made a begging call to their CEO. These companies own the American political process =================== and what did this man - who knew as well as anyone what climate change meant - actually do in power? This man who we now fete as the one who can turn around America's hobbling of the global response to climate change and failure to ratify Kyoto? The Kyoto process wasn't always opposed by America. During the talks they actively participated, forcing dilution after dilution from other nations desperate to keep the Americans on board. Then, when it had gotten as weak as possible, they walked out. What a strategy. Who led that fossil-headed American delegation? Vice President Al Gore. for more, check this http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/12/17/hurray-were-going-backwards/ Clinton, Obama, they're both freemarketeers committed to the fossil fuel industries and runaway climate change because those things make more profit for corporate power than acting responsibly. And they know it.
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 23, 2008, 23:41
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Merrick wrote: It's a real pleasure to see how people reacted to Karl Max's provocations. Handofdave, you handled him really well, very measured, thoughtful, nothing insulting at all. So you made me laugh out loud when after he'd gone you wrote handofdave wrote: Good riddance to the jerk. I confess to being intolerant of guys like him in the end. I just don't have any patience for people who's litmus test for further conversation involves one-upsmanship... the lefter-than-you-ever-will-be pretensions... the obsession with announcing academic credentials... etc. Add a pinch of basic rudeness, a dash of elitism, a cup of garden-variety 'death to America' rhetoric and you've got Karl Max.
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vince 1628 posts |
Jan 24, 2008, 04:07
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KARL MAX wrote: ....Just a lot of pc hooey by people too lazy to REALLY try to change the society they are living in. I guess your way of changing the society you lived in was by legging it out of NY pronto and heading to the relative peace of Sweden then eh? I don't visit U Know! very often, but..... ....as a British citizen who is acutely aware of his homelands chequered history (yes our past record is appalling & I'm ashamed...but wtf can I do about it now other than teach my child to be humane & peace loving to all....) and still ADORE my homeland and it's way of life... ....as a British Citizen living in the deep south of the US where you alledge it's just Afro-American & Hispanic......yeah right. I thought living in Redditch, Birmingham, Wood Green & Finsbury Park was multi-cultural but they were nowt compared to the mix in Jacksonville, FL...... For someone so keen to brag about his own intelligence....the mind boggles. .....yeah, it's pretty exciting here isn't it? I'll have to pop by more often `.-) ps HOD - Where were you when when I needed a voice of reason / beer-friend when I was living in New England? Doh!
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 24, 2008, 10:27
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vince wrote: ps HOD - Where were you when when I needed a voice of reason / beer-friend when I was living in New England? Doh! I don't know! Where where you living up here and when? If ya ever find yourself back in the neighborhood I'll take you down to the Moan and Dove in South Amherst. Excellent alehouse...!
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Jan 24, 2008, 13:17
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handofdave wrote: I confess to being intolerant of guys like him in the end. yeah, but don't feel bad about that. Their whole manner is *designed* to keep trying your patience until it breaks. Then comes an aggressive response, and the whole thing descends into a playground namecalling squabble that discourages any intelligent posting on the whole board. Sure, when the fucker's gone a one-mild-word insult is totally understandable. The important thing was you and the others didn't take the bait, so the tosser got bored and went away. Well done, folks.
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Edited Jan 24, 2008, 13:55
Jan 24, 2008, 13:53
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Merrick wrote: handofdave wrote: I confess to being intolerant of guys like him in the end. yeah, but don't feel bad about that. Their whole manner is *designed* to keep trying your patience until it breaks. Ha! Oh yes indeed. I once got into a pointless argument with some guy about Madonna's use of the giant crucifix in her stage show. I made a remark about how she was egging on the Jesus camp with a gag meant to stir up publicity, the Crucifix being a symbol that EVERYONE will un-mistakenly associate with the symbol of Christ's sacrificial death. This prompted a reply from some joker who grabbed onto an obvious, but far less significant truth to the case at hand; that many, many people in antiquity died on crucifixes. I reminded him that this was Madonna, and how unlikely it'd be if her intent was to invoke any old Tom, Dick or Harry crucifixion victim. He bit down on his angle of the argument and wouldn't let go, like a pit bull dog, until I finally conceded to him sarcastically, just to get rid of him. He exulted and preened in the next post, doing the whole 'in your face!' dance... I've never seen a worse case than that guy.
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vince 1628 posts |
Jan 25, 2008, 15:07
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handofdave wrote: vince wrote: ps HOD - Where were you when when I needed a voice of reason / beer-friend when I was living in New England? Doh! I don't know! Where where you living up here and when? If ya ever find yourself back in the neighborhood I'll take you down to the Moan and Dove in South Amherst. Excellent alehouse...! I was in Newport RI...and bored shitless! Not sure I could leave the warmth of FL again for those chilly climes though...brrrrrr....you're a brave man Sir!
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