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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Edited Aug 29, 2006, 10:07
Aug 29, 2006, 10:06
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pooley wrote: grufty jim wrote: pooley wrote: I'll stop thinking that it magically disapears when they do. You're not seriously suggesting that individuals should wait for those in authority to realise the error of their ways before taking action to mend their own. Are you? No, not at all. But if we are going to be charged for the amount of rubbish we throw away then we have a responsibility to make sure that it being dealt with in the correct way. Maybe I was misleading in what i said before. My opinion is - paying for rubbish that it going to be diposed of in a responsible manner, ok, fair enough. It's a pain but we all have to act Paying for rubbish that is just going to be shipped off and forgot about - no way. Hmmm... that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, pooley. There are two entirely separate issues at stake here (with regards to waste management). One, as you rightly point out, is what happens with our collective waste - does it get landfilled in China? Landfilled closer to home? Recycled? Incinerated? Dumped in the sea? Whatever. I am not disagreeing with you here; that's an important issue and needs to be dealt with. However, the second issue - completely unconnected to the first - is the question of the quantity of waste produced by each individual household. And charging for waste disposal is an attempt to deal with that end of the problem by inducing people to minimise the amount of waste entering the disposal stream in the first place. Yes, the question of what happens to your rubbish is important, but surely the attempt to minimise the amount generated by society (whatever we do with it) is also very important?
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Aug 29, 2006, 10:49
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Are you saying that the council need to clear the technology for profiling waste-disposal with each individual household? I think a simple information sticker on the bin isn't too much to ask. They did that fast enough when they told me they were only going to be coming fortnightly.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Aug 29, 2006, 10:57
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nigelswift wrote: I think a simple information sticker on the bin isn't too much to ask. They did that fast enough when they told me they were only going to be coming fortnightly. Fair enough. That would probably have been a good idea alright. Though I guess they may have thought that'd be counterproductive as they could have been worried about households removing the chips if they announced them publicly...? Also bear in mind, the council almost certainly own the bins (they supply them, and you don't - after all - take them with you when you move) so they are free to modify them in any way they choose. And when those modifications are clearly designed to facilitate more efficient waste disposal and perhaps - in the long term - reduce the amount of waste being generated, it seems perverse to attack them for doing so.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Aug 29, 2006, 11:20
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nigelswift wrote: So what's to stop someone swapping bins with some poor old duck down the road that never throws stuff away? Bin-space theft is a problem. You can buy gravity locks for your wheelie-bin if you want to. They need a key to open when the bin is upright, but open when the bin is inverted so the binmen don't need a key to empty it.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Aug 29, 2006, 11:29
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"they could have been worried about households removing the chips if they announced them publicly" It'll be interesting to see how it pans out. Everyone will get to know about them, and then a proportion will remove them on Big Brother grounds and another lot will do so to avoid the extra charge. I wonder if it'll end up unworkable? The house address printed on the outside with a machine readable bar code might have been simpler and less apparently "sneaky".
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anthonyqkiernan 7087 posts |
Aug 29, 2006, 11:32
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The recycle sysatem the council introduced for our flats sucked. Eveyone was given a bag for paper and one for tins & glass. The first time they were collected the bags were left at the kerbside and all blew away. Really annnoying. This of course has little to do with chipping bins. Just thought I'd gripe. Although, there are people with larger households in the close that seem to produce mountains of rubbish. Personally, I find them stuffing it in the space in my bin (which their usually is) preferable to them leaving it out and about for the neighbourhood cats to get stuck into. If they started charging me by weight, this would change very quickly.
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moss 2897 posts |
Aug 29, 2006, 11:41
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"The house address printed on the outside with a machine readable bar code might have been simpler and less apparently "sneaky". They should have just super-glued them, but obviously all over the country the councils are tackling this problem in different ways. The thought of having rubbish weighed does lead ones mind astray though, hopefully family sized homes are taken into account compared to single ownership but if a single person is extravagant he/she should be nailed. So how much rubbish is everyone allowed?
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Aug 29, 2006, 15:12
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In Ireland the chip is actually moulded into the fabric of the bin - you can't remove them.
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pooley 501 posts |
Aug 30, 2006, 08:39
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grufty jim wrote: pooley wrote: grufty jim wrote: pooley wrote: I'll stop thinking that it magically disapears when they do. You're not seriously suggesting that individuals should wait for those in authority to realise the error of their ways before taking action to mend their own. Are you? No, not at all. But if we are going to be charged for the amount of rubbish we throw away then we have a responsibility to make sure that it being dealt with in the correct way. Maybe I was misleading in what i said before. My opinion is - paying for rubbish that it going to be diposed of in a responsible manner, ok, fair enough. It's a pain but we all have to act Paying for rubbish that is just going to be shipped off and forgot about - no way. Hmmm... that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, pooley. There are two entirely separate issues at stake here (with regards to waste management). One, as you rightly point out, is what happens with our collective waste - does it get landfilled in China? Landfilled closer to home? Recycled? Incinerated? Dumped in the sea? Whatever. I am not disagreeing with you here; that's an important issue and needs to be dealt with. However, the second issue - completely unconnected to the first - is the question of the quantity of waste produced by each individual household. And charging for waste disposal is an attempt to deal with that end of the problem by inducing people to minimise the amount of waste entering the disposal stream in the first place. Yes, the question of what happens to your rubbish is important, but surely the attempt to minimise the amount generated by society (whatever we do with it) is also very important? Something else, Jim, that I admit I have only just thought of. What other area of your life would you allow this intrusion to happen in? Does agreeing with the ends justify the means? I'm very against all the various intrusions that we have been subjected to under Blair, and all the other stuff that we will have subjected on to us (id cards etc). Does that fact that this intrusion will be for the good mean we should accept it?
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Aug 30, 2006, 09:08
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At the moment, if it's only a trial, why are the bugs necessary at all? If the lorries are weighing the bins, they could just do their statistics on the numbers without pinning down the bins to particular addresses. It does seem unnecessarily big-brotherish to stick bugs in people's bins without telling them. And later, when you've informed them you're going to do it.. well that sounds great if you don't have to pay as much as the people downstairs that put out 5 bin bags every week. BUUT how do you stop people just dumping rubbish at the side of the road and not putting it in their bin? You wouldn't even need to sneak to a field or a layby. You could just put your bin bag randomly in the street.
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