Toni Torino
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Re: "I 've got rights !"....
Aug 01, 2005, 12:48
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I've driven through many EU countries, (Italy to France to Spain and back again as one example) and I've never even seen a border guard or customs official....
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Nat
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Re: "I 've got rights !"....
Aug 01, 2005, 12:49
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I don't actually understand where you are coming from here? It doesn't make any sense. We're talking about whether someone has 'human rights' to a fair trial here not whether we are going to side with bombers or people killed.... who's to say it's going to happen again? It may not on the other hand it may well do. I can't predict... and neither can you.
But I'm certainly not going to change my view on a persons 'human rights' just as I'm not going to stop travelling up to London to visit my brother who lives in the middle of the City, just incase!!!
In the UK human rights should be for everyone, it doesn't always work but that should be the case. I would rather this person has a fair and humane trial and is found either innocent (as we don't know he's guilty as yet) or guilty and let the UK Legal System (as faulty as it may be) sort it out.
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Toni Torino
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Re: "I 've got rights !"....
Aug 01, 2005, 12:51
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I don't see how you can put the right of the ordinary person to walk around unmolested and the right of the accused to have a fair and just trial at seperate ends of the moral scale......
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grufty jim
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Re: "I 've got rights !"....
Aug 01, 2005, 13:40
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My thoughts exactly, Toni. If we're the free, pluralist society we claim to be; then it is our duty to do all we can to protect both sets of "rights".
We must do all we can to protect ourselves from these maniacs. But as soon as we begin to substantially change our legal and civil framework / rules in order to accommodate or react to these people, then we have to acknowledge that they are succeeding in their aims (to "destroy our freedoms" as Dubya would put it) and we are losing in ours (protecting the rights of innocent people to walk around unmolested *includes* the rights of Brazillian electricians... an example that demonstrates we've already changed our behaviour a bit to mirror how the the terrorists do things).
In my honest opinion - and I understand that this may sound controversial - I would rather live in a society under periodic attack from suicide bombers, than one that has successfully eliminated their threat by removing the rights of everyone.
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Rolling Ronnie
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Re: "I 've got rights !"....
Aug 01, 2005, 14:25
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<I would rather live in a society under periodic attack from suicide bombers, than one that has successfully eliminated their threat by removing the rights of everyone.>
While I agree with everything you say, I still find it galling that this person, if he is the bomber, is throwing his rights in our faces when he has denied life to others.
No-one is (I think) saying he should be denied a fair trial. They are saying that his demand to have his rights honoured in his (adopted!) country whilst attacking said country are hypocracy of the highest order.
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morfe
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Re: "I 've got rights !"....
Aug 01, 2005, 14:37
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"his demand to have his rights honoured in his (adopted!) country whilst attacking said country are hypocracy of the highest order."
The only reason one could be expected to be angry at his comments where if he really is a plotter/bomber/terrorist.
However I do find it darkly amusing that this man could have plotted to kill innocent people, and we are at first angry at his 'hypocrisy'!
Whatabout his potential 'subhuman murdering scum' credentials?
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Rolling Ronnie
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Re: "I 've got rights !"....
Aug 01, 2005, 14:53
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<The only reason one could be expected to be angry at his comments where if he really is a plotter/bomber/terrorist>
Hence the comment 'if he is the bomber' :-/
I don't think it's our main concern, more a case of having salt rubbed into the wounds.
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morfe
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salty old dog
Aug 01, 2005, 15:03
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Absolutely right. I was just paying the devilled advocaat.
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Rolling Ronnie
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Re: salty old dog
Aug 01, 2005, 15:27
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And quoting Procul Harem if I'm not mistaken, yer old hippie
;-)
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Vybik Jon
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Re: "I 've got rights !"....
Aug 01, 2005, 18:00
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"There were six men in birmingham
In guildford there’s four..."
No. I don't know if the arrested guys are guilty or not either. But lets wait and see, eh?
There are a lot of us on here who are old enough to remember the 70's. There's also a whiff of lynch mob in some parts of this thread.
Disappointing.
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