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necropolist 1689 posts |
Oct 14, 2003, 12:18
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been reading up about this on various other sites, looks like a cracking campaign. in a nutshell, the irish government (via the councils) are trying to impose flat rate taxes on households for their waste collection. actually it's not quite flat rate as the more rubbish you chuck out, the more they charge you - ie a total break from the basic, age old, principal of paying via yer income tax in a progressive manner. of course the council uses the excuse of being 'green' to justify this attack on basic living standards, but it's a complte load of ol tosh, as household waste accounts for a mere 2% of what is chucked in landfills, and the big businesses which create most of the waste aren't being asked to pay for it! it is also a method of providing a steady income stream so that the bin collection service can be privatised in the near future. so the response has been an anti-bin tax campaign, with people refusing to pay any charges. after a couple of months the council instructed the binworkers not to collect ANY rubbish from those houses that hadn't paid. and so campaigners have set up blockades at the depots so that NO rubbish at all is collected (whilst trying to work with the binmen themselves to ensure they remain onside, and to offer them longer term support in their campaign against privatisation). So far it has been fairly succesful. But Dublin corp is trying to crack down, of course, and so far 15 people have been jailed for refusing to say they wouldn't go on another blockade - including an irish TD (MP) & a councillor - both members of the Socialist Party. The support for them is massive, especially when completely corrupt officials are investigated but never charged, let alone jailed. This morning one bin lorry ran over a protestor - breaking his leg - and the driver wasn't even a binman, but someone from the Housoing Office! he continued to drive the wagon away, and wasn't stopped by the Gardai. All in all, a cracking campaign - more details at http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/wsm/bins.html and http://www.stopthebintax.com/ and http://www.nobintax.info/news/news.nv?front and an indymedia update is available about todays goings on at http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61632&%20PHPSESSID=91830243cb02d21aae2c<br%20/>e89c1a3549c9
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MonkeyBoy 1008 posts |
Oct 14, 2003, 18:09
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Fair play play to The Socialist Party, they were always better at kicking ass than the SWP ever were.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Oct 14, 2003, 20:12
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Well, we didn't get our bins emptied today because of the actions by these fecking idiots. To start with it is European Law that you pay for the rubbish you create, so the bin charges are a matter of law, not a whim. We do not pay any form of council tax here (although income tax is higher than in the UK) so waste collection is not covered by that as it is in the UK. Secondly, you *should* pay for the amount of rubbish you dispose of. Additionally, in most areas it is a flat charge, only a few have a 'per bag' system for household rubbish. Personally I'd love a per bag system as I am careful about the amount of crap I throw away and might be better off. Most of Ireland has had waste charges for some time, but that didn't bother the folks in Dublin did it? Oh no! Only when it was applied to them did they start. Dublin produces more waste than Ireland can cope with now. They are trying to build new incinerators all over the country (rightly to massive opposition) to cope with it all. That is not the solution is it!? The solution is to cut down on waste.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Oct 14, 2003, 20:19
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Businesses *do* pay for their rubbish to enter the system. All companies in Dublin have stickers, which they pay for, which must be on every black bag put out for collection. If the sticker ain't there it don't get collected. Households get given green bags. In Germany they have had systems like this for years. Rubbish will only be collected in special bags, which cost something like a tenner to buy. They also operate heavy duty separation schemes by the household. This tax is not the issue people should be concerned with. It is probably the backhanders that will be involved in securing the contracts for the incinerators, when the money should be spent on greater recycling initiatives instead.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Oct 14, 2003, 20:38
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"This morning one bin lorry ran over a protestor - breaking his leg - and the driver wasn't even a binman, but someone from the Housoing Office! he continued to drive the wagon away, and wasn't stopped by the Gardai." This was an odd one. The binmen themselves had refused to drive the wagons out and some dipshit jumped in a wagon and reversed at high speed, hitting two people. Twat! Hope he gets slammed for it
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bitteryesbitter 370 posts |
Oct 14, 2003, 23:29
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per bag charge sounds completely ridiculous to me!! what of those with children?? if i were in ireland, my trash would secretly find its way to the councils doorsteps!! is someone already scheming a black market for trash riddance???? i'm with the 'education' bit. encourage folks to recycle, etc...
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 09:40
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people with children produce more rubbish??? They choose to have children and the associated costs of having children. I am totally for it. People need a kick up the backside because they are so thick. Where I live we have an excellent weekly collection of everything you can think of, glass, plastic, clothes, phone books, tins, oil, etc etc. You just stick it in a big green box the council give you for nothing and pop it outside the house. But every week our road is full of litter from people's ordinary bin bags (there are loads of seagulls) and their bin bags are full of cans, glass, newspapers etc. It's so irritating to see because it's so ridiculously easy to put these things in the recycling box. If you have to pay for your rubbish then you think about what you're producing and what you're buying. And don't come back with stuff about packaging - because invariably the cheapest things have the least packaging - so I don't accept that it would affect poorer people more (unless you're talking breadline poor).
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 09:43
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er I'm not totally for this Irish thing maybe. But I'm for people having to pay for what they kick out in some way.
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Nat 1905 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 10:29
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Well put Rhiannon... I agree with you totally. Been trying to work out the wording for a reply since yesterday. But I agree we should be responsible for the waste we produce. Southampton is "talking" about giving us all a recycling bin, I think it's a brilliant idea (we recycle almost everything anyway) but there has been so much grief in the paper and on the news from people who feel it's too much hassle to sort their rubbish!! (Do feel terrible about the guy being run over) Nat x
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 10:31
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cheers for your responses FourWinds, i thought this might be one to get you going :) Obviously, I think you're wrong tho..... European law? but most of the EC doesnt pay in this way. EU law is an excuse used by politicians to justify this attack on ordinary peoples living standards. It does NOT have to be done in that way. It is also a method of preparing the way for full privatisation - by creating a steady income stream that makes it a feasible and attractive proposition to private companies. You dont pay for it via council tax? NO, you pay via your income tax - a PROGRESSIVE method of taxation, one that relates to peoples ability to pay. Considring that when you are better off you are likely to create more rubbish as well (y'know, cos you buy more stuff) then that is vaguely green as well. The fact that it is a flat charge in most of Irerland means its even bloody worse. It's a poll tax, simple as, and as unfair as that one was. >Personally I'd love a per bag system as I am careful about the amount of crap I throw away and might be better off. glad to see its not about narrow self interest then! As for it just being a Dublin thing. Well, i can recognise the grievance there, and how it pisses non-dubliners off. But it's a question of how to fight a campaign isn't it. Somewhere may be hit first, but if you are sure any campaign there would go down to defeat, it's probably wiser to hold your fire, so as to avoid demoralisation, and wait for a situation where you CAN win, and from there spread the campaign to other area's. The question of incinerators is of course a vital one, but is it sinmply down to the amount of rubbisah created? No. Irelands only glass recycling facility is currently being closed down - did the government try and step in to prop it up, did it even promise any of these 'green' taxes to help it out? Did it fuck. Let it go to the wall, because it didn't fit with the governmentrs neo-liberal privatising agenda. By adding a pseudo-green tinge to this tax it has pulled the (pathetic) Irish Green Party in behind it, in blind ignorance of the wider agenda. (I'll have to get back to you about the business tax thing onve I've found more facts n figures out) Of course there needs to be a radical overhaul of how waste etc is collected and disposed of, there is far too much packaging used (a problem created by the manufacturers, not the consumer), and far more effort needs to be put into recycling. But, very simply, if it is the poor who have to pay for that it isn't going to happen - thats the simple truth of it. The recycling industry isn't a big profit industry, unlike the incineration business which is megabucks - it is always going to have to be subsidised by government. And bloody right too. Oh yeah, has your income tax been reduced btw 4W? Or are you paying for rubbish collection twice?
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