necropolist
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Re: Environmental Taxation & EU issues pt4
Oct 15, 2003, 11:58
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sorry that went on so long, didnt realise how big it was... to read it all on one easy page (& comments from other people) see irish indymedia at
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61575&topic_id=9&PHPSESSID=7cdb8f2b46a6a5ea3dbf<br%20/>73623ab18f28
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necropolist
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Re: Irish bintifada
Oct 15, 2003, 12:20
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fair play. once any system is established and people have had a fair chance to get used to it, are properly informed about what to do, and know that the waste WILL actually be recycled, then some penalty is quite fair on those who don't recycle 'properly'.
Still think it is overwhelmingly down to manufacturers & supermarkets to reduce the amount of packaging people use tho.
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Nat
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Re: Irish bintifada
Oct 15, 2003, 12:25
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Own brand goods and getting yer veg from the Green Grocers helps!! :o) Thou you can recycle most packaging now adays... blooming flower pots mind, don't get me started on them grumble grumble...
Are you one of these men who are always right??? ;op <rrrrrrassssssssssppppppppppp> and absolutely hate being wrong.
Nat xx
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necropolist
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talking of germany
Oct 15, 2003, 12:38
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c 'n' p job here:
"I am resident in Germany and as I noted in a previous posting on another thread, in this country supermarkets and similar retail outlets are obliged to provide bins for customers to dispose of excess packaging at the point of purchase. A poster on the other thread informed us that he tried to do this in Ireland and was warned that it was not allowed and that he would be barred from the premises if he persisted. "
"Similarly in Germany, the whole drinks trade is structured so that most drinks (whether beer or orange juice or mineral water) are sold in reusable packaging, typically a crate with bottles for which a deposit is paid. This can then be returned and credited against the next purchase. The point being that here I can CHOOSE whether I want my purchase to generate large amounts of household waste or not. I actually have some consumer choice in the matter."
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necropolist
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Re: Irish bintifada
Oct 15, 2003, 12:45
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of course I am - Ida thought you knew that by now!
Aye there are many ways to reduce the amount of crap you buy, and groovy (see the 'germany comments at the bottom), but if you have kiddies who are little gets who will only eat very specific brands it's a damn site harder. us dinkies, nice n easy, but if you're working and trying to bring a family up as well, its far from being so easy.
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FourWinds
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Re: Irish bintifada
Oct 16, 2003, 07:29
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"people with children produce more rubbish??? They choose to have children and the associated costs of having children"
Yeah! I wish some bugger had told me how big that cost would be :-)
Surely the extra rubbish is mainly disposable nappies here and baby food packaging. There's an answer to reducing all of that, so I see no arguement there.
One of our neighbours doesn't pay the bin charges, but she doesn't get her rubbish collected. She returns all packaging to the manufacturers (which she is entitled to do under European Law) and recycles as much as possible. The rest she saves up and takes to the landfill herself and pays for it by the car load, which she obviously makes sure is full.
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FourWinds
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Too much packaging
Oct 16, 2003, 07:35
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"(a problem created by the manufacturers, not the consumer)"
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. The consumer chooses to buy this stuff. There are alternatives, but the consumer chooses to buy the pretty packaged one, or the over packaged one thinking they get more for their money or that it's better quality.
If the consumer stopped buying it then the manufacturers would stop making it.
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FourWinds
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Re: Irish bintifada
Oct 16, 2003, 07:46
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This issue of double taxation is wrong. Just like we don't pay for water in Ireland, we've never paid for waste collection.
Of course, it's been paid for through income tax, but it's never been one of the services that income tax has paid for, if you see what I mean. Basically the service has been free (ha ha) - a technical legal shitty note I know.
Actually my tax did drop last year, but that drop certainly wouldn't have affected the lower income bracket.
Irish Tax is high. The first 28K (euro) is at 20% (or 21% - can't remember) and the rest is at 42%. And we have no National Health system here - surely that's a bigger gripe than a fucking bin tax!
I wasn't necessarily using the EU law issue as an excuse, but more of a reason.
I just believe that people need a poke in the eye to get them to start to recycle more. People really took to the carrier bag tax here and it's had a small, but significant knock on effect. I see lots of 'unlikely' folk recycling these days.
I think, but I'm not sure, that you can get tax relief on bin charges.
Source for glass recycling plant closing please. Hadn't heard of that one.
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Nat
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Re: Irish bintifada
Oct 16, 2003, 09:19
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Hmmm I do know ya.. and I think I'm right!
xx
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necropolist
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Re: Irish bintifada
Oct 16, 2003, 09:47
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that all sounds like a right royal pain in the ass to me - one that i'm sure most overworked families would have difficulty finding time for. oh of course there is something we could be see as 'peripheral' or a bit of a waste of time that they could not do instead, but i dont think its for us to determine how people spend there already overlimited free time.
to do that is to shift all the emphasis on recycling (which very obviously needs to be done to a much greater extent) almost entirely onto the individual, at a cost to THEM, when it should be the repsonsibility of those who CREATE the waste in the first place.
This is meant o be a 'polluter pays' tax, but it bloody isn't - the actual polluters are almost entirely avoiding there responsibilities.
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