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Nat 1905 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 10:33
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<Considring that when you are better off you are likely to create more rubbish as well (y'know, cos you buy more stuff) then that is vaguely green as well.> Hmmmmmm really!! I'm not sure about that hun.... can't agree with you on that one...
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 10:37
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recycling takes some getting used to. round here, we've only got paper at the moment, at first, yes, some people used it as a spare rubbish bin, but very rapidly they got used to the fact that if they did that it wouldn't be collected, and now the overwhelming vast majority are 'correctly' used. Recycling needs to be made much easier for people to do (and companies pressured into using less packagaing), doorstep collection is a vital part of that. How do you force people to do it? Not by constantly fining what are (generally0 some of the poorest sections of our society, people who can often barely get by anyway. It is a large scale change in attitude and practise for most people, and when business taxes are som massivell subsidised for the amount of waste they produce (the vast majority of waste) then its sick that they try and get the money out of ordinary people.
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Nat 1905 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 10:54
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Can't agree with you hun.. sorry... I'm afraid part of the problem is ignorance and a can't be bothered attitude! Doesn't take much to sort the rubbish.... not at all, whatever yer income or lack of. All our recycling 'will' go into the same bin, whether its tins, paper, glass etc. Doesn't need to be sorted into size, shape, recyclability etc. No effort at all... Sorry!
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 10:59
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wow you've got a downer on peeps today nat! in my experience, people like change, and get used to doing things a different way. afew people will refuse out of sheer bloody mindedness, but they are a small proportion of the whole. one part of the problem, also, is that in some cases, bloody glass 'recycling' banks havent gone to recycling at all - they've just been taken to a frigging landfill. when that happens, perople have a right to be cynical, so making sure that there are proper recycling facilities is also key. if people consistently dont use the facilities 'correctly', then there is an argument for fining them. but why should everyone else pay for the actions of a small number of assholes?
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 11:01
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in that kinda community campaign, they certainly were. The Irish SWP is involved (Brid Smith (?) has mjust been sent down), but there main stratgey has been to argue for (from what I can tell) the bin workers themselves to take the lead. A nice idea, obvipously, but not one that is likely to happen given workers confidence, union leadership etc etc.
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 11:54
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By Joe HigginsTD Government’s Pathetic Failure on Waste Reduction and Recycling Paper waste: Did you know that in 2001, out of 302,062 tons of paper disposed of from households, an incredible 279,833 tons (92.6%) went to landfill and only 22,229 tons (7.4%) went for recycling? (Source; National Waste Database Report 2001 – Environmental Protection Agency.) Did you know that, Repak notwithstanding, of 502,352 tons of paper disposed of by commercial outlets, 358,276 tons (71.3%) went to landfill with 144,076 tons(28.7) going for recycling? (Same source) This means that if paper recycling was made mandatory with facilities provided in all areas, at a stroke the amount of waste going to landfill from households and commercial outlets would be reduced by almost one third (32.5%). Household Waste is waste produced within the curtailed of a building or self-contained part of a building used for the purposes of living accommodation. Commercial Waste is waste from premises used wholly or mainly for the purposes of trade or business or for the purposes of sport, recreation, education or entertainment but does not include household, agricultural or industrial waste. What the Environmental Protection Agency 2001 Survey shows is that we have a Government which gives lipservice to an environmentally sound waste management policy but is not serious about putting the infrastructure in place to make comprehensive recycling a reality. Glass: Did you know that out of 77,827 tons of glass disposed of by households in 2001, 55,214 tons (70.9%) went to landfill while 22,614(29.1) went for recycling? (Same source) Did you know that out of 73,403 tons of glass disposed of in 2001 by the commercial sector, 53,078(72.3%) went to landfill with 20,325 tons (27.7%) went for recycling? (Same source) Irish Glass Bottle, the only glass recycling facility in the Republic was closed in June 2002. Now all glass for recycling has to go to Northern Ireland or abroad. The Minister for the Environment and the Government ignored calls for a major initiative to keep and develop a national glass recycling facility by bringing together the IGB workers, the Local Authorities and Rehab Industries to work out a plan based on the basis of a publicly owned IGB. Some other facts; In 2001, of the total amount of plastic disposed of by households, 145,563 tons went from households to landfill ……. 99.4% of the total. 404,064 tons of organic waste went from households to landfill with only 19,846 (4.7%) recovered for composting. 2001 Total Waste Produced Tons Total of Non Agricultural Waste 17,384,194 (Industrial Construction, Commercial & Household) Agricultural Waste 56,687,440 Total 74,071,634 Note; Most agricultural waste does not go into landfill but is recycled on the land as fertiliser etc. Municipal Waste(Household , Commercial & Street cleaning) (Before recycling) Household Waste 1,468,834 Commercial waste 1,156,732 Street cleaning 78,469 Total Municipal Waste 2,704,035 Waste Going to Landfill in 2001 Waste Accepted at Landfills: Tons Household 1,254,859 Commercial 737,193 Construction 1,094,496 Industrial 4,480,754 Other 710,296 Total 8,277,598
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 11:56
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Household Waste going to Landfill as a proportion of All Waste going to Landfill is 15% As part of their propaganda campaign to have the bin tax implemented, the Minister for the Environment and others frequently attempt to make householders feel as if they are responsible for the bulk of waste production. As the figures above show, in fact, householders account for a small proportion of all waste produced and for 15% of waste going to landfill. A favourite slogan of the Minister and of the pro bin tax lobby is ‘The Polluter Pays’ applying this to householders. This slogan should be rejected. All the evidence is that householders are waste receivers rather than polluters and would have far less materials to dispose of if commercial and retail outlets cut down on packaging and if the proper recycling infrastructure existed. Nevertheless there are significant measures which could be taken to reduce the amount of waste which householders are obliged to deal with. How an effective waste reduction policy would work: Reduction at Source; Outlawing unnecessary packaging would reduce a significant amount of packaging waste that households have to dispose of. Is there any serious intent on the part of Government, when we find in supermarkets and shops widespread practices such as the use of polystyrene trays and plastic wrapping used to wrap fresh vegetables, fruit and even pastries? Or when each month, millions of cartons of Tetrapak milk or juice cartons going to landfill, as they cannot be recycled? Investment in Recycling Infrastructure: Sufficient investment must be made to provide a comprehensive recycling infrastructure in each area. Byelaws can then be implemented requiring that no recyclable materials go to landfill. A comprehensive public education programme should be undertaken showing why each citizen, household and corporate or other organisation should comply with reduction at source, reuse and recycling policies. The EU and Waste Policy in Ireland The Government frequently uses the cover of the EU for justification of the bin tax. The EU came up with the slogan ‘The polluter pays’ and that slogan has been dealt with earlier. But it is very important to see exactly what the EU Directives are saying. It will be seen, in fact, that the Directives do not direct Governments on precisely how waste management should be paid for.
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 11:57
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EU Directive 91/156/EEC of 18 March 1991 amending Directive 75/442/EEC on waste Article 3 1. Member States shall take appropriate measures to encourage: (a) firstly, the prevention or reduction of waste production and its harmfulness, in particular by:………………………..the technical development and marketing of products designed so as to make no contribution or to make the smallest possible contribution, by the nature of their manufacture, use of final disposal, to increasing the amount or harmfulness of waste and pollution hazards. Article 15 In accordance with the ‘polluter pays’ principle, the cost of disposing of waste must be borne by; - the holder who has waste handled by a waste collector …….and/or the previous holders or the producer of the product from which the waste came (My emphasis) Article 14 relates to the minimisation of waste at source. Quite clearly the Government does not take this seriously. Article 15 also outlines the possibility of charging those who put all the unnecessary packaging into the shops and supermarkets for the disposal of the waste. Naturally the Government takes the usual route of attempting to hit the ordinary householder with charges instead. There is absolutely nothing stopping the Irish Government arguing in the EU that householders contribute fully to waste management costs through the central and indirect taxation, which they pay and which is then made available to the Local authorities for this purpose. When it is stated ‘We must pay for services’ the answer is quite simple. PAYE taxpayers and contributory pensioners have always paid for services such as water and waste management, including when the Ansbachermen and others were blatantly and illegally defrauding the taxation system. The Bin Tax - Bad For the Environment There is very clear evidence that rising bin taxes around the country, far from having a beneficial environmental impact, will have a very serious detrimental effect on the environment. A professionally produced survey carried out by Irish Marketing Surveys for six local authorities in the South East shows that alarming 37% of households burn their waste always or sometimes. This is highly dangerous for the environment as it means that dangerous toxic gases are going uncontrolled into the air. A senior official in one of the Councils, which commissioned the survey, said that rising bin taxes was partly responsible for the high level of burning. Unfortunately, there is also evidence that rising bin taxes will lead some people to indiscriminate dumping of waste.
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 11:57
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The Fight Against The Bin Tax Is About Taxation Justice Rising Bin Taxes and the reintroduction of water charges would mean a new Local Tax of up to €1,000 per household each year within a few years It is important for campaigners to bring out the hidden agenda of Government. What they want is to have a parallel structure of local charges that would in reality be a new tier of local taxation parallel to the PAYE system. These would be imposed by the Local Authorities and would not be accountable to the Dail. The Minister of Finance and Government of the day would then be able to claim that these charges had nothing to do with them and wash their hands of them. We have seen the cynical operation of this trick already with long overdue reductions in PAYE being given in Budgets and then most or all of the value taken back by rises in local charges and stealth taxes. The Bin Tax has already reached €400 in some local authorities. The OECD is pressing for the reintroduction of water charges, initially at a level of €200 per household. If this were done it would not be too hard to see these charges rising in a few short years to a level of €1,000 per household. It is argued by the supporters of the Bin Tax that it is meaningless to speak about ‘double taxation’ because the level of PAYE taxation has gone down significantly over the past several years. What they conveniently ignore is that these tax reductions were not only long overdue from the 1980s but were also in compensation for many of the modest increases in wages that workers accepted, or had forced on them, through the national ‘partnership’ deals. They now want the reductions to be an excuse for new local taxes. In fact since 1987 there has been a huge reduction in the proportion of the national wealth going to working people and a huge increase in the proportion going in profits, rents and dividends. Figures from the Central Statistics Office show that in 1987 wages and salaries of workers amounted to 59% of Gross Domestic Product while the profits and rents taken by the capitalists amounted to 41%. By2001 the proportion going to workers had fallen to 46% while profits and rents had risen to 54%. This can be readily understood by young workers attempting to purchase a house and by working people generally in their experience of price rises and rent increases across the board. Tax Cuts for Big Business The fight against the bin tax also highlights the unjust tax system, which hugely favours big business and the super rich such as billionaire and millionaire tax exiles. In the Budget for 2001 the Government provided the corporate sector with tax cuts of €329 million and in 2002 a further cut of €305 million, not taking into account the cut in employers’ PRSI. This means a provision in this year alone for the corporate sector paying €634 million less in taxation. This would not only provide for massive investment in waste management but also allow for investment in necessary social and other services.
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Nat 1905 posts |
Oct 15, 2003, 11:58
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No I haven't!!! :o) Happy as a pig in recycled poo me!! Just have a HUGE personal hatred of people who refuse to do their bit for recycling! No need not too and no need to drop litter!! Nat xxxx
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