FourWinds
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Re: Geoclashing
Jan 24, 2003, 10:49
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This cache in in a National Nature Reserve ... oops
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=22340
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RiotGibbon
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may I beg to differ
Jan 24, 2003, 10:54
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surely, the whole point of geocaching *is* to alter the environment by leaving something that wasn't there before you arrived. If you haven't intruded, you haven't left a cache.
Therefore, it's litter. If the landowner agrees, then there's not a problem. If it's in the vicinity of an ancient monument or a conservation area, there's no way you'll have permission, therefore it is litter.
I can't see how a geocache can be defended in these situations - cachers have said that they are not left in these places, but a quick glance through the various competing websites shows they clearly are, and a brief reading of the discussion boards shows that there's plenty of skeletons in the cupboard.
Cachers ... if you don't sort this out, then it's going to happen anyway. Outside of ancient monuments/conservation areas ... no probs. Inside, it's litter, and it can't stay there
RG
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Teasel
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Re: Legality of litter and all that
Jan 24, 2003, 10:56
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Their definitions of litter aren't too helpful! The ENCAMS definition is subjective and could apply to anything from a dropped fag packet to a fallen standing stone. Taking that as our definiton would just shift the debate from "what is litter?" to "what is waste?" and "what is the wrong place?"...
The EPA definition, on the other hand, shifts the debate to "what is defacement?". My dictionary talks in terms of "to spoil the surface or appearance of". Seems wrong, somehow, that it's OK to leave trash, so long as it's well hidden! And it doesn't address permanancy, so orienteering markers would be just as bad as crisp packets?! (I think one would have to read the whole act to get anything useful).
With encams finding an average of 1500 items of litter per km of our beaches, and the total litter problem being measured in terms of millions of tonnes, the overall contribution of geocaching one way or the other seems minuscule, whether you allow initiatives such as 'cash in, trash out' to offset the caches themselves, or not.
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Squid Tempest
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ever circulating library?
Jan 24, 2003, 10:59
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this is getting a bit circular isn't it? someone points out that leaving a cache is litter, a geocacher says something like
>Again, as has also been pointed out several times, many Geocachers spend much of their walk picking up trash along the way <
then someone points outs that leaving a cache is litter, a geocacher says something like
>Again, as has also been pointed out several times, many Geocachers spend much of their walk picking up trash along the way <
then someone points outs that leaving a cache is litter, a geocacher says something like etc etc etc
round and round we go.
Squiddo
x
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Kaipaith
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Re: may I beg to differ
Jan 24, 2003, 11:00
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And all we're saying is we're happy to move them... but after doing so, you won't notice any difference, except you'll be losing a few visitors to these places who actually care for the environment.
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RiotGibbon
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GeoTrashing
Jan 24, 2003, 11:02
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http://www.gpss.co.uk/geocache/geotrash.htm
it seems that the happy community of GeoCachers are *seriously* at war with each other
RG
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Kaipaith
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Re: ever circulating library?
Jan 24, 2003, 11:07
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"round and round we go"
Which is why it's so infuriating. Neither of us are listening to the other side - because neither of us fully appreciate the others point of view. Why?
Geocaches cause far less damage than, say, a path, or a road, or a fence. But the Mod Ant's have had no direct experience of them (as yet).
But the Geocachers know this (that caches can be construed as litter), and also know that litter is a problem. The mutual ground they try to provide, by keeping the area tidy, and keeping well out the way, is not welcomed.
Blow this for a game of soldiers. Just thank God we're not in charge of the Iraq crisis, that's all I can say - if we were, I'm sure we would have seen some real environmental damage by now.
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lobsterboy
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Re: ever circulating library?
Jan 24, 2003, 11:07
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But the whole point is - if it is there under the rules, so it has the landowners permission.....how can it be litter?
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Kaipaith
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Re: GeoTrashing
Jan 24, 2003, 11:09
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Only in the same way that vandals are *seriously* at war with you.
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Squid Tempest
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Re: ever circulating library?
Jan 24, 2003, 11:11
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the whole point being that you don't NEED to leave something behind at all. You could have one of yer virtual caches OR you could just go and visit the place for the hell of it - which, after all, is what people have done for centuries before GPS came along...
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