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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » antiquarianism vs archaeology |
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pixie 111 posts |
Oct 25, 2002, 15:38
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this could go on for ever, !! i agree with Fw about the new age bollox that says we prove this and that...no-one can truly prove anything, as i have said before if the gods and goddess's exist they must be flexible and forward thinking as , like fourwinds says, they will 'die' with the last worshipper, so waht are they? i can accept that i just *am*, i don't need to worship any particular deity, because the sceptic and practical side of my nature then only goes and reads stuff to disprove him / her, so why bother? i actually find that whatever works for all of us is cool and would never disrespect anyone because if its gets them there hey! but i do find it 'annoying' that some will quote this clap trap or that rubbish as if its gospel when it isn't! (not on here i might add)nobody really knows WHY, thats the whole vibe about it! we don't know! we can guess we can add things together but we just don't know, and as i have said before any 'goddess' from neolithic times sure as hell aint gonna do it for me, coz i am a twentieth century gal! what does she have to offer me that i havent already got within me? (said all this on the other thread, so wont repeat myself) i love it thats it a great and valid discussion and i really do respect everyones point of view, i just can't find proof of it all. and the male hating goddess worshippers (not on here but we've all met 'em) are as bad as partiarchal christianity or wahtever, for me male and female energies work in harmony, both in conflict and harmony and for growth, we need each other, male needs female, nature has a balance and sometimes its cruel, but thats the conflict we all need to survive, by wahtever means everyone can call it and invoke it to their hearts content but i just can't! maybe i am missing something maybe i am not, i blaame my dad coz when i was about 10 i wanted to join sunday school (only for a free bible coz i am abit tight like that! and my best friend went and they also went on trips etc....sad!), he said ok so i went and hated it , then on my return bible less i might add (!!) he told me to always look for others points of view, told me about Eric von daniken for afew hours gave me Chariots of the gods to read and said ''if you still want to go to suday school you can, just don't beleive anyhting that needs preaching about' cool, never went back and now can't help thinking he led me on a very weird journey from then on! so although i label myself pagan , and can speak of a goddess and god in some terms thats why i can't truly beleive because after reading so much i know non of it is THE truth, the truth IS within ourselves. and i can truly love the landscape and sites around me, because i worship (??) them because its so freaky that they are still here ! they still exist! and never never will i ever really know WHY they were put there! i get pleasure out of them i get high without drugs,being there and getting there, i grow from learning and soaking up knowledge about it all. thats my religion! f*** i have gone off it agian soz mates hope i put it across well without any disrespect intended! phew pixie xx wooh, have i gone on abit? i love this whole discussion as its feeding my brain in so many ways so thank you,
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Oct 25, 2002, 15:48
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Cor! <nudges mate and nods towards subject> Have you seen the words on her! Phwoar!!!
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Vybik Jon 7717 posts |
Oct 25, 2002, 16:56
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They told me to let down the tyres on my bosses bike on account of her being such backward thinking whatever. It's not my fault.
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Oct 25, 2002, 19:44
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His book "Triumph of The Moon" is a must for anyone with even the vaguest interest in pagan or neo-pagan stuff. In fact I would say it's all the more important for those thinking of treading that particular path. ( I use the word 'pagan' here kind of generically for want of scrabbling round for a better phrase) Although in many ways it's primarily a debunker of the modern interpretations of paganism espoused by the Gardnerian and Alexandrian (and the like..) schools of thought, what he does do...and this is important...is strike the balance between the recieved facts and the personal experiences of the pagan folk he encountered in his researches. Whether it was a diplomacy of sorts or what, far from ridiculing and poo pooing some of the modern pagan ideas, he admires the adaption and strength of beliefs that some of the modern pagans have "inherited". He kind of takes the view that the peoples experiences he came across were prefectly "valid" and "real" for them and should be accorded a similar respect you'd would expect given to ones own belief systems. I absolutley agree that there is a huge industry of new age clap trap caught up in all this and that's unfortunate. However I guess that's nothing new. There's always been money made and commercial angles taken on any belief. You ever seen some of the tat in a hard core catholic house? It's like walking into a Woolworths for Jesus. It's a pretty good read if you're into that sort of thing. As to the whole sun and moon thing going on here. In my readings there's usually been a sun/male, moon/female aspect to pagan beliefs, as well as the notion of and earth/mother. It's this male/female sun moon stuff that informs the notion of balance and harmony prevalent in many modern interpretations of "Pagan" ideas. Thing is this whole interpretation thing can round and round like a record baby...hmmm round Anyhoo...what with all the ground rumblin' n' tremors going on up here at the moment, I'm givin the gods, old, new and in a shop near you, loads of respect at the moment ;-)
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wychburyman 951 posts |
Oct 26, 2002, 12:53
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I recommend "Religion and the decline of Magic" by Keith Thomas
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Maria 6 posts |
Oct 26, 2002, 15:15
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It's good to rant from time to time. As a dowser, who has worked & lived in the Avebury area for many years, it's great to hear positive feedback regarding ley lines & earth energies. Too many people are all to ready too rip into those who try to rediscover the whispering language of Mother Earth.
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pixie 111 posts |
Oct 27, 2002, 00:03
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bless you young jedi, but i fear this site has had enough of my babble for a while ( i even surprised myself!) so promise i shall retreat to a more subdued and less outspoken position in the room , by the bar as per usual, double vodka and coke ,,,ice, no lemon, anyone??/ peace and less of the talking ness!!! although its been mighty enjoyable and given my willingnes to be hypocrytical and spontaneous maybe more will spout! pixie XXXXXX
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Oct 27, 2002, 10:13
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Rite on Pixie. I agree that there's too much (misplaced?) emphasis on so-called ancient wisdoms for those of us who wish to relate to gods, goddesses and whatever in the here and now. Not to denigrate any of those ancient ways. For example in terms of nature worship, or perhaps a better phrase might be 'respect', the Native American traditions of times past & present can tell us a whole lot about wisdom in relation to the world around us. Probably more so than some cobbled together neo-pagan thing. Also it seems to be an unwritten law that "lo..and no two pagans shall agree on any way of doing things, so mote it be..or not" However the way I see it meself is that that some of the modern ideas re: god, goddess and so on, are and should be, timeless and deeply personal interpretations of the magic and wonder and spirit of the world around us. And though some of the 'traditions' and lore surrounding these ideas are often very beautiful, it shouldn't mean that one has to be slavishly rooted (pardon the pun) withing another persons construct of belief. (One for pseuds corner there I think) For me the goddess is a vibrant, evolving and lets face it sexy idea, especially in terms of the notions of moon worship. And you're right to say that at the end of the day, it's down to whats within that should be the driving force as to how one goes about their business, whether that be religion, faith, science and so on. There have been many scientists that have no problem in balancing the rationale of their scientific theories, knowledge and experience with a more "spiritual" set of beliefs in a faith or religion. My old chemistry teacher was a man of facts, theories and scientific outlook and yet he was also an utterly devout Christian who saw no contradiction in his outlook. And he wasnt a scientist who drew faith from the Bible as a series of allegories either; he believed it word for word! To be honest I sometimes find that to be somewhat contradictory and a difficult balancing act to maintain, but I fully accept that if thats what is in the heart of someone, it's what they draw comfort from, then who am I to rain on their parade? (Gotta say I find all these Hollywood types rolling in cash who suddenly become Buddhists a slightly more difficult notion to swallow but thats my beef) Sorry to ramble, as the fell walker said the to farmer. Hey we yam what we yam! Bless yerselves x
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biathlon 5 posts |
Oct 27, 2002, 12:07
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well i think that antiquarianism has more to do with MYSTORY (My Story!), that other thing called archaeology has more to do with HISTORY (you can say: his story!). well, i like the ideas of julian cope! good foughts! let people find out their own story instead of reading NME to check out what´s new on the market. i will try to post the message of antiqauianism to other FOLKS here in germany! i think they will laugh at me!
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pixie 111 posts |
Oct 27, 2002, 13:33
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'' some of the modern ideas re: god, goddess and so on, are and should be, timeless and deeply personal interpretations of the magic and wonder and spirit of the world around us. '' is a great way to put it, i re-read my post above and i do seem abit negative, i try not to be but when i get all passionate , wooooh! i agree that Huttons book is a good balancing book, i wouldn't like to get into paganism now as a newbie, its so contradictory, bitchcraft, etc. etc. glad i am through all that and have 'found my space' !! as i say i worship the land beneath my feet, the sky above and nature in all her / its passion, i accept conflict , pain, aggression and the darker side of both nature as well as within myself ,,,as well as the sexy, passionate, beautiful vibrant and positive side of me and the world around us. fluffy bunny goddess / god / nature worship does not help growth...for all things to move forward there has to be conflict and change in order for it to manifest, be it spiritual, emotional or physical i agree that these hollywood buddhists are full of shit or so it seems, all get on the trendy train! but paganism seems to be trendy too at the mo, along with all the other new age bollox, all i know is that i will still be pagan, and stil be me throughout this journey we call this life, maybe some won't , wahtever i know its me**. what i really hate is people saying things like ''oh i have a high priestess of the 7th sign twice removed ancient shaman teaching me paganism, today we did dowsing, last week was reiki and next week we're 'doing' buddhism!!'' what?? i guess it will take me more than this life to grow and accept my ideas and ways of being, i am sure it takes many lifetimes to 'be' a buddhist...how on earth can you learn a lifetime's mysteries ina week? when we stand on a mountain top we are insignificant to it, our lifetime to that mountain is less than the time it takes to take a breath, we are insignificant, we have ourselves and our own power but really we're quite powereless in the whole scheme of things! oh well......every season has a reason..... peace p xx (next week i shall mostly be spouting crystal moon worship with sheep...) :))))
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