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U-Know! Forum » Jesus I despise Brexit. |
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Jeez 98 posts |
May 28, 2018, 15:53
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I used to believe that the EU would make a better job than the UK government of running this country. In the 1980s I was in such despair I secretly hoped that the EU's powers would gradually emasculate the Thatcher government, but now I don't think that would be a good idea. At the moment I'm reading "Adults In The Room" by Yanis Varoufakis. It's worth checking out to see how the EU suppressed the socialist uprising there. I'm fed up of this country being run by people who are pretty much unelected and then cling to power with all the might of the establishment. Brown, Cameron, Clegg, May - none of them had a legitimate mandate and neither does the EU. BTW, I'm not saying that the people of Dudley are not racist. I also grew up in the Midlands in the 1970s and I witnessed people running through the town centre with NF banners. I myself was frequently tormented and beaten up by gangs of English black kids at junior school and I remember being followed through town by an unknown person chanting in a low voice "Me no like the white man" in the early 1980s. So I know it can be fucking scary. It's just that I know there is just as much racism in Europe - don't make it out to be a paragon of virtue just because it's not Britain. We're no more racist than anyone else.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 28, 2018, 16:58
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We're no more racist than anyone else.... Agreed. All I am saying is that a chunk of pro Brexit votes were racist votes and still are. Which puts all the complex economic arguments into a rather sad context.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited May 28, 2018, 22:25
May 28, 2018, 17:26
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nigelswift wrote: We're no more racist than anyone else.... Agreed. All I am saying is that a chunk of pro Brexit votes were racist votes and still are. Which puts all the complex economic arguments into a rather sad context. Hi Nigel, I always feel I have to qualify any comment I make on this topic by saying I voted to stay in the EU. I'm not denying there are racist people in this country maybe even living on the same street. However, there were/are a large number of people who had concerns about open borders because of the number of people taking advantage of them - far more cars on the road, public services/schools stretched to the limit etc, etc. That can only get worse when other (poorer) countries join the EU. I've recently returned from Ireland and was speaking to the owner of the accommodation about Brexit - he is someone who had worked for 20 years in London. His view was that the UK was clobbered by freedom of movement - as far, far more people want to go to London and other UK towns/cities than want to settle in Ireland (although Ireland feels very European these days). I believe those observations are not in themselves racist (I speak as someone who has Romanians living next door and a Spanish family a couple of doors away).
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
May 28, 2018, 18:13
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There is a difference with Greece in that the socialist economic plans were somewhat irresponsible and the country had to pay its debts, regardless of how it got into the situation in the first place a position had to be made to basically stop the country crashing completely and put in place some system of responsibility. That was a single instance, however it's not suppressed any form of socialism otherwise, and regardless of the inane bleatings of people like corbyn, socialist ideals are very much alive and well in the EU.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 28, 2018, 20:49
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It's not people with those thought-about concerns I resent June, it's people who simply wanted "Pakis out". That sounds utterly crass but it's how many people talked and still do, I know it is. I fear that with only a 4% difference it was those people that may have swung it. And I resent the fact.
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Howburn Digger 986 posts |
May 31, 2018, 08:05
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Captain Starlet wrote: There is a difference with Greece in that the socialist economic plans were somewhat irresponsible and the country had to pay its debts, regardless of how it got into the situation in the first place a position had to be made to basically stop the country crashing completely and put in place some system of responsibility. Banker-created debt on Fiat Currency which had never even been printed - let alone spent. The major part of Greec's debt was forced upon it by the EU who snared Greece in massive arms deals which the EU impoosed on Greece between 2010 and 2012. These included Greece being forced to sign off on contracts for completely unnecessary miltary items like 662 Million Euro Aircraft deal. 336 Million Euro Submarine deal. The EU enforced the deals as part of "Aid". It was a torpedo - not a life raft. And Sarkosy and Merkel knew it. Greece's relatively tiny National Debt was then extrapolated through compound Euro-manufactured interest on loans it had never actually had for military hardware it didn't need or want. Payments were then extracted - forcing banks to the wall. Hardball business on a European Scale which had been previously reserved for actual hot wars. I know what Greece should have done with those aircraft now. Germany has still never paid Greece its WW2 reparations. I wonder why not. They amount to more than the debt Germany extracted from Greece's worthless and un-needed arms contracts. Lovely.
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
May 31, 2018, 08:40
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Howburn Digger wrote: Captain Starlet wrote: There is a difference with Greece in that the socialist economic plans were somewhat irresponsible and the country had to pay its debts, regardless of how it got into the situation in the first place a position had to be made to basically stop the country crashing completely and put in place some system of responsibility. Banker-created debt on Fiat Currency which had never even been printed - let alone spent. The major part of Greec's debt was forced upon it by the EU who snared Greece in massive arms deals which the EU impoosed on Greece between 2010 and 2012. These included Greece being forced to sign off on contracts for completely unnecessary miltary items like 662 Million Euro Aircraft deal. 336 Million Euro Submarine deal. The EU enforced the deals as part of "Aid". It was a torpedo - not a life raft. And Sarkosy and Merkel knew it. Greece's relatively tiny National Debt was then extrapolated through compound Euro-manufactured interest on loans it had never actually had for military hardware it didn't need or want. Payments were then extracted - forcing banks to the wall. Hardball business on a European Scale which had been previously reserved for actual hot wars. I know what Greece should have done with those aircraft now. Germany has still never paid Greece its WW2 reparations. I wonder why not. They amount to more than the debt Germany extracted from Greece's worthless and un-needed arms contracts. Lovely. It was Germany and France in the very major sense, not the EU. Although people like to say that Germany and France ARE the EU, the EU is still made up of 28 different countries at this moment, secondly Greece were not forced into buying extensive military goods thus incurring the amount of debt and the eventual crash of their economy. Sadly this is one of those things that those who incurred the debt have to take responsibility for their actions and not just blame everyone else for their woes.
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Locodogz 254 posts |
May 31, 2018, 09:30
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Agreed - I'd be fascinated to know what or who 'forced' Greece to buy arms? Equally I'd previously read that at least some of Greece's woes were due to it's poor record on collecting taxes - 10 - 15 billion euros a year not paid IIRC? Frankly more than enough to cover those "forced" arms deals.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 31, 2018, 15:29
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LSE Brexit ?Verified account @lsebrexitvote Fishermen Say They Were Misled About Brexit James O'Brien ?Verified account @mrjamesob James O'Brien Retweeted LSE Brexit That’s it then. Just the racists, spivs, disaster capitalists & pantomime toffs left cheering for it now. And a few decent people still understandably struggling to admit the scale of the con they fell victim to.
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Howburn Digger 986 posts |
Jun 02, 2018, 10:09
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nigelswift wrote: LSE Brexit ?Verified account @lsebrexitvote Fishermen Say They Were Misled About Brexit James O'Brien ?Verified account @mrjamesob James O'Brien Retweeted LSE Brexit That’s it then. Just the racists, spivs, disaster capitalists & pantomime toffs left cheering for it now. And a few decent people still understandably struggling to admit the scale of the con they fell victim to. Yup. The EEC was a con. The Common Market was a con. The European Union was a con. It has revealed itself under its mask with its Pan-EU Military plans for The Ukraine and Turkey/ Israel. The EU is a con. Some Remainers do realise it now, but cannot face it and are playing an endgame of The Emperor's New Clothes with themselves while sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "La La La". It was never about Cheese Mountains, forgiving the Nazis or being nice to French Students. Forgive yourself and move on. England is still England and France is where it has always been. Brie is still Brie and Cheddar is still Cheddar. |
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