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Unsung Forum » When did indie music go tits up? |
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keith a 9573 posts |
May 04, 2013, 10:43
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Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: Oasis had it and blew it (or snorted it as it were). Some genius tunes, and absolutely kicked the dust up, but ultimately crippled, as so many from this city before or since, by a slavish adherence to 'cool'. Dunno about that last bit. I think you're first reference was more the issue with where and how it went wrong. Liam Gallagher is clearly terrified of looking 'silly', within his limited parameters That statement could refer to just about any 'rock star' you could think of. Not really. I'd say there are loads of 'em that are completely aware of ridiculousness and are not afraid to embrace it. Dave Lee Roth, that band beginnning with "K" you like so much, Adam Ant (so much so he wrote a line about it), Slade, Ian Anderson, Bowie on occasion albeit through alter-egos, Devo, Andrew Eldritch, David Coverdale, Rob Halford, GWAR, Steel Panther, The Darkness, Mikael Akerfeldt, Robbie Williams, Cheap Trick, ALice Cooper, Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, Iggy, John Lydon (when they trot out the Pistols),.... to name but a few. Hmmm. They all have their own image and do what they do. Liam has his and does his thing. I can't imagine Andrew Eldritch going on The Muppet Show anymore than Liam. But if you're picking The Darkness you may as well go the whole hog and pick The Barron Knights. It's not a case of 'going on the Muppet' show. It's about self-awareness and that there is very often an inherent ridiculousness in rock n roll or rock, and someone like Andrew Eldritch is clearly aware of that. I'd also add one Julian Cope to that list, especially given his pronouncements about being a 'cartoon'. That doesn't mean that all the work is 'silly' - it simply means that performers who possess that self-awareness are able to utelise inherently ridiculous things to their advantage. Cope has it. Ian McCulloch, for example does not. And neither does Liam, or he at least hides it very well. I'm not going to discuss the pros and cons of The Darkness with you, cos it's going to be pointless and its something we shall never agree upon. Of course it would be pointless. I wasn't aware that there were any pro's.
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keith a 9573 posts |
May 04, 2013, 10:58
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Yeah, I'd agree with much of that. A cross between the likes of the over-twee Sarah being so off-putting rather and then the likes of Oasis becoming so mainstream. There was a point when the Brits and NME's Brat awards were basically the same. The early 90's is probably when the Indie scene died (or maybe disappeared is a better word) for me. It had always featured some things I liked (Factory, Zoo, some of the C86) and some I didn't (I couldn't stand things like Talullah Gosh!), but post-say '92/93 I'm struggling to remember an indie scene like there had been when the last lot either moved on (PJ Harvey) or disappeared (New FADS).
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited May 04, 2013, 11:13
May 04, 2013, 11:08
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keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: Oasis had it and blew it (or snorted it as it were). Some genius tunes, and absolutely kicked the dust up, but ultimately crippled, as so many from this city before or since, by a slavish adherence to 'cool'. Dunno about that last bit. I think you're first reference was more the issue with where and how it went wrong. Liam Gallagher is clearly terrified of looking 'silly', within his limited parameters That statement could refer to just about any 'rock star' you could think of. Not really. I'd say there are loads of 'em that are completely aware of ridiculousness and are not afraid to embrace it. Dave Lee Roth, that band beginnning with "K" you like so much, Adam Ant (so much so he wrote a line about it), Slade, Ian Anderson, Bowie on occasion albeit through alter-egos, Devo, Andrew Eldritch, David Coverdale, Rob Halford, GWAR, Steel Panther, The Darkness, Mikael Akerfeldt, Robbie Williams, Cheap Trick, ALice Cooper, Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, Iggy, John Lydon (when they trot out the Pistols),.... to name but a few. Hmmm. They all have their own image and do what they do. Liam has his and does his thing. I can't imagine Andrew Eldritch going on The Muppet Show anymore than Liam. But if you're picking The Darkness you may as well go the whole hog and pick The Barron Knights. I am sure Eldritch would have loved to have been on the Muppet show though probably as a Muppet rather than as himself. The Sisters collaborated on that 2000AD thing in the late 80s which was not at all reverential. Have you seen the Floodland era videos? Completely absurd and knowingly so. The sort of thing that could only have been come up with by someone who grew up with The Avengers and that 60s school of serious/silly high camp tv. The Darkness are total winkers. Maybe you need to be an appreciator of unwinking rock n roll of that ilk to get the joke AND fall in love with the tunes. It's a little like the folks who allegedly took Spinal Tap at face value as a documentary and missed the mock aspect entirely. Though I say that as someone who plays the Rutles album as often as I play Revolver.
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jb lamptoast-morsley 2447 posts |
Edited May 04, 2013, 11:25
May 04, 2013, 11:22
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i know they didn't sell many records, but it hadn't actually occurred to me that one could view The Frank & Walters in that way! For the record, i wasn't really a fan of the other bands you mentioned. I don't see The Franks sounding remotely like Carter USM either. Edit* And i don't see that billing comes into it either - that it matters where in the billing a band is in terms of the quality and enjoyment of their music
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jb lamptoast-morsley 2447 posts |
May 04, 2013, 11:46
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Yeah you are right that the 'guitar underground' scene is pretty strong at the moment. Maybe psych rock has replaced indie rock as the alternative? I wonder what the new Stone Roses album will sound like?!! (if there is one)
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Jasonaparkes 876 posts |
May 04, 2013, 11:46
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Baggy didn't help (...couldn't believe how much of that was diluted-Can and how music journos had forgotten those who had blended dance music with alt stuff before like AR Kane, The Pop Group, 23 Skidoo, Psychic TV etc)...but it was Britpop. That Cool Brittania shite was it - when success was the goal, but with records worse than 'Success' by Sigue Sigue Sputnik. When indie became a genre rather than method of delivery...when Rough Trade went tits up and the Cartel vanished...when The Smiths left Rough Trade...when bands like Sleeper wore brown cords and sang about the trivial...when shoegaze/art-rock was left behind for sub-XTC/Madness/Specials stuff...and when cocaine became an emphasis. There was a great quote from Jarvis Cocker on memories of Britpop, something like, "Britpop was just overweight men with their shirts tucked out getting a blowjob on cocaine to The Italian Job...."
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Kid Calamity 9045 posts |
May 04, 2013, 11:49
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Anyone see Vampire Weekend and The Yeah Yeah Yeahs on Jools Holland, last night? Utter shite.
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jb lamptoast-morsley 2447 posts |
May 04, 2013, 12:01
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yeah the problem was not just that indie was absorbed into the mainstream, it was that the music that followed was complete and utter shite! Maybe it also coincided with when people lost interest in the charts. When was the last time an artist excited that was in the charts? I am guessing that it was about the time of Britpop in my case. Not long after Copey was doing I gotta walk on Top of the Pops
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keith a 9573 posts |
May 04, 2013, 13:24
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Kid Calamity wrote: Anyone see Vampire Weekend and The Yeah Yeah Yeahs on Jools Holland, last night? Utter shite. I thought one of the YYY's numbers was pretty damn good!
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keith a 9573 posts |
May 05, 2013, 00:24
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IanB wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: Oasis had it and blew it (or snorted it as it were). Some genius tunes, and absolutely kicked the dust up, but ultimately crippled, as so many from this city before or since, by a slavish adherence to 'cool'. Dunno about that last bit. I think you're first reference was more the issue with where and how it went wrong. Liam Gallagher is clearly terrified of looking 'silly', within his limited parameters That statement could refer to just about any 'rock star' you could think of. Not really. I'd say there are loads of 'em that are completely aware of ridiculousness and are not afraid to embrace it. Dave Lee Roth, that band beginnning with "K" you like so much, Adam Ant (so much so he wrote a line about it), Slade, Ian Anderson, Bowie on occasion albeit through alter-egos, Devo, Andrew Eldritch, David Coverdale, Rob Halford, GWAR, Steel Panther, The Darkness, Mikael Akerfeldt, Robbie Williams, Cheap Trick, ALice Cooper, Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, Iggy, John Lydon (when they trot out the Pistols),.... to name but a few. Hmmm. They all have their own image and do what they do. Liam has his and does his thing. I can't imagine Andrew Eldritch going on The Muppet Show anymore than Liam. But if you're picking The Darkness you may as well go the whole hog and pick The Barron Knights. I am sure Eldritch would have loved to have been on the Muppet show though probably as a Muppet rather than as himself. The Sisters collaborated on that 2000AD thing in the late 80s which was not at all reverential. Have you seen the Floodland era videos? Completely absurd and knowingly so. The sort of thing that could only have been come up with by someone who grew up with The Avengers and that 60s school of serious/silly high camp tv. The Darkness are total winkers. Maybe you need to be an appreciator of unwinking rock n roll of that ilk to get the joke AND fall in love with the tunes. It's a little like the folks who allegedly took Spinal Tap at face value as a documentary and missed the mock aspect entirely. Though I say that as someone who plays the Rutles album as often as I play Revolver. Whoah!! The Darkness are punching way above their weight getting mentioned in the same breath as Spinal Tap and The Rutles! Despite ridiculousness of the whole thing they always seemed to take themselves quite seriously. I was about to say it helps if you like the type of music that they're parodying, but then again if somethings good enough (like Spinal Tap or The Mighty Wind for that matter), it doesn't matter. But liking early punk definitely helps me appreciate the joke of Punk's Not Dad where some older blokes play spirit of '76 type thrashy stuff, but with subjects that include sheds and man-flu as opposed to anarchy and smashing things up!
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