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Unsung Forum » When did indie music go tits up? |
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
May 04, 2013, 00:22
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keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: Oasis had it and blew it (or snorted it as it were). Some genius tunes, and absolutely kicked the dust up, but ultimately crippled, as so many from this city before or since, by a slavish adherence to 'cool'. Dunno about that last bit. I think you're first reference was more the issue with where and how it went wrong. I disagree. Liam Gallagher is clearly terrified of looking 'silly', within his limited parameters, even though his cartoon snottidude persona is now looking a bit silly. There is an inherent conservatism (with a small c obviously) in both the Gallagher's modus operandi.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited May 04, 2013, 07:16
May 04, 2013, 06:43
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Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: Oasis had it and blew it (or snorted it as it were). Some genius tunes, and absolutely kicked the dust up, but ultimately crippled, as so many from this city before or since, by a slavish adherence to 'cool'. Dunno about that last bit. I think you're first reference was more the issue with where and how it went wrong. I disagree. Liam Gallagher is clearly terrified of looking 'silly', within his limited parameters, even though his cartoon snottidude persona is now looking a bit silly. There is an inherent conservatism (with a small c obviously) in both the Gallagher's modus operandi. Well put. I agree with a lot of Dave Clarkson's assessment but when it comes to Oasis, being the kids in the back row who are all mouth and disruption indicates an incredibly conservative way of thinking. Anti intellectual. Non forward thinking. Its got nothing much to do with class really. It's a state of mind that is as common to the rich and the middle as to anyone else. Like the Pistols, Oasis made one very timely brash rock and roll statement and should have split up before it started to get corny.
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keith a 9573 posts |
May 04, 2013, 08:10
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Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: Oasis had it and blew it (or snorted it as it were). Some genius tunes, and absolutely kicked the dust up, but ultimately crippled, as so many from this city before or since, by a slavish adherence to 'cool'. Dunno about that last bit. I think you're first reference was more the issue with where and how it went wrong. Liam Gallagher is clearly terrified of looking 'silly', within his limited parameters That statement could refer to just about any 'rock star' you could think of.
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Edited May 04, 2013, 08:27
May 04, 2013, 08:24
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keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: Oasis had it and blew it (or snorted it as it were). Some genius tunes, and absolutely kicked the dust up, but ultimately crippled, as so many from this city before or since, by a slavish adherence to 'cool'. Dunno about that last bit. I think you're first reference was more the issue with where and how it went wrong. Liam Gallagher is clearly terrified of looking 'silly', within his limited parameters That statement could refer to just about any 'rock star' you could think of. Not really. I'd say there are loads of 'em that are completely aware of ridiculousness and are not afraid to embrace it. Dave Lee Roth, that band beginnning with "K" you like so much, Adam Ant (so much so he wrote a line about it), Slade, Ian Anderson, Bowie on occasion albeit through alter-egos, Devo, Andrew Eldritch, David Coverdale, Rob Halford, GWAR, Steel Panther, The Darkness, Mikael Akerfeldt, Robbie Williams, Cheap Trick, ALice Cooper, Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, Iggy, John Lydon (when they trot out the Pistols),.... to name but a few.
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keith a 9573 posts |
May 04, 2013, 08:30
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IanB wrote: when it comes to Oasis, being the kids in the back row who are all mouth and disruption indicates an incredibly conservative way of thinking. Anti intellectual. Non forward thinking. Its got nothing much to do with class really. It's a state of mind that is as common to the rich and the middle as to anyone else. Like the Pistols, Oasis made one very timely brash rock and roll statement and should have split up before it started to get corny. I think all this is harsh. Oasis were a good band who did what they did, but sadly with ever diminishing coked up returns. They wore their influences on their sleeve but they had their own sound because of it. As conservative as this might make them in the eyes of some, I don't think they are any more guilty of this than 90% of pop/rock acts who probably ended up with a less distinctive sound. The problem with Oasis wasn't that they didn't split up (well it kinda was, but shouldn't have been!). It's that they believed their hype and thought they everything they touch was going to be brilliant. Hence their albums went on too long, they lost their edge and the ballads seem to out-number the more brash, instant thrills of something like Supersonic. If they'd have released a few more non-coked up sprawling albums rather than starting to believe they were the new Beatles they would have been all the better for it IMO. That said there were still good moment along the way. I don't really listen to them these days but they were a pleasant diversion at the time, bringing some colour into the mainstream which, for those who of us who like a healthy singles chart (now sadly long gone!), was a good thing. And how many other bands could take a record like D'Ya Know What I Mean, which effectively sounds like a seven and a half minute mantra, to number one!
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keith a 9573 posts |
May 04, 2013, 08:36
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Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: Oasis had it and blew it (or snorted it as it were). Some genius tunes, and absolutely kicked the dust up, but ultimately crippled, as so many from this city before or since, by a slavish adherence to 'cool'. Dunno about that last bit. I think you're first reference was more the issue with where and how it went wrong. Liam Gallagher is clearly terrified of looking 'silly', within his limited parameters That statement could refer to just about any 'rock star' you could think of. Not really. I'd say there are loads of 'em that are completely aware of ridiculousness and are not afraid to embrace it. Dave Lee Roth, that band beginnning with "K" you like so much, Adam Ant (so much so he wrote a line about it), Slade, Ian Anderson, Bowie on occasion albeit through alter-egos, Devo, Andrew Eldritch, David Coverdale, Rob Halford, GWAR, Steel Panther, The Darkness, Mikael Akerfeldt, Robbie Williams, Cheap Trick, ALice Cooper, Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, Iggy, John Lydon (when they trot out the Pistols),.... to name but a few. Hmmm. They all have their own image and do what they do. Liam has his and does his thing. I can't imagine Andrew Eldritch going on The Muppet Show anymore than Liam. But if you're picking The Darkness you may as well go the whole hog and pick The Barron Knights.
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
May 04, 2013, 08:44
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keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: keith a wrote: Moon Cat wrote: Oasis had it and blew it (or snorted it as it were). Some genius tunes, and absolutely kicked the dust up, but ultimately crippled, as so many from this city before or since, by a slavish adherence to 'cool'. Dunno about that last bit. I think you're first reference was more the issue with where and how it went wrong. Liam Gallagher is clearly terrified of looking 'silly', within his limited parameters That statement could refer to just about any 'rock star' you could think of. Not really. I'd say there are loads of 'em that are completely aware of ridiculousness and are not afraid to embrace it. Dave Lee Roth, that band beginnning with "K" you like so much, Adam Ant (so much so he wrote a line about it), Slade, Ian Anderson, Bowie on occasion albeit through alter-egos, Devo, Andrew Eldritch, David Coverdale, Rob Halford, GWAR, Steel Panther, The Darkness, Mikael Akerfeldt, Robbie Williams, Cheap Trick, ALice Cooper, Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, Iggy, John Lydon (when they trot out the Pistols),.... to name but a few. Hmmm. They all have their own image and do what they do. Liam has his and does his thing. I can't imagine Andrew Eldritch going on The Muppet Show anymore than Liam. But if you're picking The Darkness you may as well go the whole hog and pick The Barron Knights. It's not a case of 'going on the Muppet' show. It's about self-awareness and that there is very often an inherent ridiculousness in rock n roll or rock, and someone like Andrew Eldritch is clearly aware of that. I'd also add one Julian Cope to that list, especially given his pronouncements about being a 'cartoon'. That doesn't mean that all the work is 'silly' - it simply means that performers who possess that self-awareness are able to utelise inherently ridiculous things to their advantage. Cope has it. Ian McCulloch, for example does not. And neither does Liam, or he at least hides it very well. I'm not going to discuss the pros and cons of The Darkness with you, cos it's going to be pointless and its something we shall never agree upon.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited May 04, 2013, 10:27
May 04, 2013, 08:52
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There is a lot to be said for having the capacity to be be serious and silly. As you say Cope is classic and he must hoot when people like me take some of his more ridiculous recent moments at face value (mainly involving guns and various phobias but not both at the same time). U2 would fall into this categoy. They have been painfully aware of the grandiose stupidity of it all since the response to the corny po-faced nonsense that was Rattle and Hum. Winking at us hasn't stopped them making some pretty decent unironic records at the same time. There is certainly more than a C60s worth of really good rock tunes since 1990. People take the piss but I would take them over any other stadium act of recent times. Including the post 70s Stones. Todd R is a big winker. I might also mention Blue Oyster Cult, Jellyfish, Queen, Be-Bop Deluxe and the Tubes before they stated taking their own cartoon genius as a serious threat to their musical credibility and financial prospects. Irony is that they could no more just decide to be a "real band" and have it work than Mud. On a related subject and as we were saying the other day there is a lot to be said for enjoying music that you also know is really a bit shit. It can't all be Tilt, 'Trane, Turandot and Tavener. Where would the fun be in that?
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Sin Agog 2253 posts |
May 04, 2013, 09:03
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If you think of Liam and Noel as one great big Janus head with a big floppy mop-top hairpiece glued on top, Liam's self-seriousness and wideboy swagger makes a lot more sense.
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espsummer 340 posts |
May 04, 2013, 09:07
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indie is an odd term to classify but i think the original post about things going wrong around colplay and muse are quite true. For me those bands sounded like they were DOA. A bland rehash of things. Coldplay sound like Radiohead and Dave Mathews fused together.......Interestingly bands like Prefab Sprout, Talk Talk, or The Pale Fountains were on big labels and yet they seem like gods compared to what's labeled indie today.
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