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Unsung Forum » Who's best: Lou Reed or John Cale? |
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Sin Agog 2253 posts |
Edited Apr 28, 2010, 13:37
Apr 28, 2010, 13:32
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singingringingtree wrote: has anyone mentioned lester bangs vs lou reed yet? if not, why not? Let Us Now Praise Famous Death Dwarfs. Never again will journalism reach such peaks as it did during Bangs' cathartic word-wrestles with his muse. Been re-listening to some Lou and Cale albums recently and I'm 100% secure in my choice of Cale. The man even managed to make spoken word music sound good (not that I'm knocking William Shatner). Here's one of a few collabs he did with Hector Zazou, just 'cause I doubt most Cale fans have heard it: First Evening (feat David Sylvain).
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Apr 28, 2010, 15:33
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I'm a dabbler in both rather than an out and out fan but Lou Reed edges it over Cale for me by virtue that, in very general terms, he rocks more and more convicingly than Cale. And I like 'the rock'! A simple pleasure perhaps, but enjoyable all the same. I love Cale's "Paris 1919" - Hanky Panky Know How is just wonderful. But Lou's stuff appeals on a more visceral level. Actually, as if the so-called art/rock division wasn't pronounced enough - notice how people so often call John Cale "Cale" and Lou Reed "Lou". Says quite a lot really. I must say "Songs for Drella" is one of my all time fave albums because, above and beyond the songs being great (IMO), but it exists as a moment of genuine, evocative emotion - something that I feel is often elusive in the solo works of either artist. Not saying it's a prerequisite to a 'good' record as such, but, in this instance, it's such a powerful thing and works, albeit perhaps unconsiously, so well. Lou and Cale (heh) actually letting the somewhat 'knowing' guard down a bit and just being in the moment, creating with and relating to each other and it paints a bigger, warmer picture than their solo efforts can. They reached each other on that record and they reached out too, and it shows.
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Sin Agog 2253 posts |
Apr 28, 2010, 15:54
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Yeah, it is weird that one of Reed and John's (hehe) most personal works is a concept album about Andy Warhol. You can really feel Reed losing it in that track about Valerie Solanis: "I believe I would've pulled the switch on her myself." But John punks out on Sabotage (recorded live at CBGBs) more than any V.U. member did before or after. It's just hilarious imagining this effete Welshman dressed in a Vivienne Westwood butcher get-up, spooling off lyrics about revolutionaries in between cutting the heads off chickens. And I feel I should probably defend Street Hassle, which has caught some shit in this thread. It's what I imagine glam-rock to be but rarely is, and it has what I think is one of the best noise pop songs ever written- Real Good Time Together- and a load of other CHOONS delivered with the kind of vim you'd expect from a jaw-grinding bennie-muncher like Lou.
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elegant chaos 2390 posts |
Apr 28, 2010, 16:00
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It's odd somehow that everybody on this forum has somehow assumed that the original question is linked to their music. The question we should be asking is - best at what? Playing tiddlywinks? Long distance running? Making an omelette? As for the obvious question - a friend of mine took a slash next to JC a few years ago and basically JC has every reason to be proud in a certain respect.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Apr 28, 2010, 16:15
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machineryelf wrote: IanB wrote: machineryelf wrote: What's the hipster opinion on the RNRAnimal/live sets these days, I remember them being universally loathed back in the 7os then gaing some kudos in the 80s as metal went bouffant and they were held up as shining examples of good guitar rock along with The Man Who Sold The World , before returning to everything bad about Lou & how he ruined the Velvet Legacy corner again.It must surely have returned to the essential list by now I loved R&R Animal back then. Live not so much. Felt like a rip-off / cash-in release even then. The guitars sound great and Lou is great too where no real singing is involved. The version of Heroin is genius. The songs where he should be crooning are horrible vocally but convincing musically. I'm pretty sure Live was my intro to the VU, it was almost certainly a 1.99 bargain bin special and I purchased anything with live on it as I assumed it would be some kind of greatest hits set, I do remember thinking when I fist heard the VU that it was a lot lighter than what was to me the original It certainly fitted my idea of arcane US rock at the time i.e Alice Cooper,BOC, Doors & MC5.Life was simple then . Funny. Those two albums were my intro to VU too! I had no idea they were even VU songs until a couple of years later. My idea of them was a metallic version of Roxy Music so when I did hear them I was a bit flumoxed.
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Lonesome Cowboy Bill 356 posts |
Edited Apr 28, 2010, 19:11
Apr 28, 2010, 16:16
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I'm a lover of Street Hassle too, great sound on that album, and the title track is way up high in the great songs list. So, the Cale has a big whanger then. Interesting. Anyone taken a slash next to Lou so we can compare?
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keith a 9573 posts |
Apr 28, 2010, 16:27
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Not played it it a while so it might be pants now, but I liked that Live In Italy double in the mid-eighties. Not in the 69 class obviosuly but some good versions all the same, though admittedly a lot of the attraction for me was that Robert Quine was on it.
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keith a 9573 posts |
Apr 28, 2010, 16:29
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The one I don't like much is Growing Up In Public. It's pretty rubbish IMO.
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Edited Apr 28, 2010, 16:42
Apr 28, 2010, 16:39
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I dunno about Street Hassle. Some of it is misanthropic like the Take No Prisoners album but to the point of being ugly. Stuff like "I Want to be Black" about white guys wanting to be a black stereotype, geez! The first two tracks are big downers as well -- "Don't you know that things always look ugly", "They'd eat shit and say it tasted good if there was some money in it for them..." -- just lyrics quoted from both. There is some excellent stuff on that album of course, not just "Good Time" but of course the really sad title track and also the rarely mentioned "Shooting Star" which I tend to think what glam-rock REALLY should've sounded like...
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Apr 28, 2010, 16:45
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keith a wrote: The one I don't like much is Growing Up In Public. It's pretty rubbish IMO. And last time I played the Blue Mask I pretty much decided I didn't like it. I'm not sure why, maybe it just didn't stand well next to Street Hassle, Berlin, Transformer or even Sally Can't Dance. Can someone convince me to re-buy it?
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