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Unsung Forum » "I hate the blues." |
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Nov 06, 2009, 19:24
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| Yep. Once upon a fairly recent time you couldn't mention the utter brilliance of The Beatles in 'cool' company. It was all sniffy. How things change. To write off any genre completely is just plain daft. Classical ? Ravels Piano Concerto In G Major Second Movement, followed by Carl Orff's Neptune The Mystic for starters. Mozart's Requiem is one of the most beautiful things ever created. | |||
Five 960 posts |
Nov 06, 2009, 19:28
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Like any genre, I like the good stuff, and what is the good stuff is a matter of taste... but here's an innarestin perspective if you-all aren't familiar with "Death May Be Your Santa Claus: An Exclusive Up-To-Date Interview With Jimi Hendrix" by Lester Bangs writing as Mort A. Credit in 1976 (some time after Jimi's death, duh...) "Now, no sooner do I get off the stage than who do I practically slam foreheads with but Bill Graham. Asshole's been standin' there on the side of the stage watchin' me this whole time. Now he just blocks my way, grabs my arm, stares deep into my eyes and says: 'Jimi, why do you go out and play shit like that, when we both know you're capable of some of the best blues I've ever heard in my life, man.' "Well, I hate to say it, but I just niggered out, played even more spaced than I was, because I didn't wanna hassle with the cat, I just wanted outa there. But if I'd been physically and psychologically capable of staying, man, I woulda said: "Because there are times when I strongly suspect, deep down inside, that I HATE THE FUCKIN' BLUES. Every broke-down nigger behind a mule he don't own can sing the blues. I only do blues because it's fun and easy to get into once in awhile, and because I know all them ofays don't think a music show by a black person is their money's worth unless they get to hear some ... " ... I mean, 'I Don't Live Today" is REAL blues, modern blues — it's what happens when you drop a hydrogen bomb on the blues, which is what it deserves." So there's that - I'm not endorsing, just pointing out. Bangs was probably an asshole, but there's some truth in every asshole (isn't there?) ... Also I just saw a quote from very young Bob Dylan to the effect of that it was distressing to realize that while the originators of "the blues" used it to distance themselves from their troubles (perhaps, I suspect, by taking money from the very people giving them the blues in the first place!), their young white imitators were largely trying to identify with the troubles themselves, ultimately giving rise to a lot of sulky wankers, getting deeper into their own (petty?) suffering instead of transcending it through music ... oh poor me, I've got the BLUES!!! Whereas BLUE CHEER, regardless of what genre inspired them at any moment, mainly just rubbed your face in din. YAWP!!
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Nov 06, 2009, 19:35
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:-).
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dodge one 1242 posts |
Nov 06, 2009, 19:54
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Yeah well...Lester Bangs was about the only one to ever RATE Metal Machine Music above the level of utter shit. Looking back...most would say it was only to get close enough to Lou to interview him. He {Lou Reed} was notorious for fucking off potential interviewers. I own MMM. It's awful. I'll take the Blues.
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sakedelic 936 posts |
Nov 06, 2009, 19:55
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You do sound rude, but you also have a point keith, Julian can say what he wants on "his website". I just thought that since we're more or less all adults here, we can indulge in some critical analysis of a provocative statement of dubious merit. re: "What's your point? That we should all conform?" damn, how did we get there? I guess an artist can hate a color, but my point is that hatred closes the mind to understanding. If you hate the blues, you don't understand rock music, pure and simple. Blind Willie Johnson kicks his ass and he doesn't have the brains to realize it. "If Julian Cope doesn't like the blues, so what?" Fine, he doesn't like the blues. I don't like hip-hop but I wouldn't say "I hate hip-hop" or "I hate Julian Cope's music" because "hate" is too aggressive a term for my simply not caring about, or not enjoying those things. It indicates to me that he is a shallow and ignorant musician and a writer who doesn't put much thought into chosing his words. If this site was just a Julian Cope ass-kissing fest I wouldn't bother coming here at all, but I value the site for the contributions of posters like Sethman and Dog3000, for the community of psych/space/kraut/jap/turk/whatever rock fans and sharing knowledge about great music. If this site was just for Julian Cope fans, it would be a pathetic site indeed. I wanted to read an article about Blue Cheer that respected Dickie Peterson and what he stood for but I got some wasted moron pissing in his coffin and it ticked me off. Would he have said "I hate the blues" to Dickie Peterson's face? Maybe. Would Dickie give him the time of day after? Not likely. Would Dickie wince and walk away? I think so. |
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sakedelic 936 posts |
Nov 06, 2009, 20:11
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Hunter T Wolfe wrote: He didn't make a statement 'blues music is rubbish,' he just admitted that he personally didn't enjoy listening to it.\ That's a fair point. Maybe I got a bit hung up on his choice of the words "I hate the blues" when all he meant was "I hate myself when I hear Bukka White or Skip James because they make me realize what a shallow, talentless hack I am, so I prefer not to go there." |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Nov 06, 2009, 20:43
Nov 06, 2009, 20:38
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The Hendrix point is well made. There is a greatly revealing little out take track with Hendrix hamming his way through some tune in various ersatz blues characature voices. It's on "Crash Landing" I think or (more likely) the bootleg version of same. I seem to remember one former pop star slagging off another former pop star about his aversion to Magma becasue they were "jazz" and not in the critically approved rock pantheon like The Velvets et al. Goose gander. Cope can obviously say whatever he likes and we can like what he says (or not) but the Blues is the foundation of more musical forms than those of a staunchly post punk persuasion might care to admit. For example Is there a finer blues singer in the art rock idiom than say Beefheart, Polly Harvey or David Thomas? And what is "I Need Somebody" if not a blues?
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keith a 9573 posts |
Edited Nov 06, 2009, 20:57
Nov 06, 2009, 20:56
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sakedelic wrote: I just thought that since we're more or less all adults here, we can indulge in some critical analysis of a provocative statement of dubious merit. Maybe it's just me but what exactly is so 'provocative' about the following sentence when you read it in full? "So was it blues after all? Who knows? Search me, I hate the blues and love Blue Cheer, so what does that say?" sakedelic wrote: If you hate the blues, you don't understand rock music, pure and simple. Depends how you define 'rock music'. You don't need to like Little Water to understand Joy Division. Personally I like both though I can't stand what Cope calls "Robert Cray’n’Elick Crapton Authenticists", which is probably at the heart of Cope's statement. sakedelic wrote: I wouldn't say "I hate hip-hop" or "I hate Julian Cope's music" because "hate" is too aggressive a term for my simply not caring about, or not enjoying those things. It's a turn of phrase here. I'd definitely say "I hate Clapton's music" rather than "Eric Clapton makes music I have never given a shit about", but I suspect there's not a world of difference between the two. sakedelic wrote: It indicates to me that he is a shallow and ignorant musician and a writer who doesn't put much thought into chosing his words. That's one big assumption just because a bloke said he doesn't like the blues. sakedelic wrote: If this site was just for Julian Cope fans, it would be a pathetic site indeed. I disagree. The majority of folk here are Cope fans to some degree, but his music has gone off in so many directions that his 'fan base' is pretty wide - hence the arguments between Cope fans! sakedelic wrote: I wanted to read an article about Blue Cheer that respected Dickie Peterson and what he stood for but I got some wasted moron pissing in his coffin and it ticked me off. What are you talking about? He calls him the 'late, great' and writes god knows how many words on how great he thought a couple of his albums were. How does that make him "some wasted moron pissing in his coffin"? Still, we both know you don't need much excuse to have a pop at Julian do you? It must seem big and clever to go on someone's website and pick fault with the man and wind his fans up. sakedelic wrote: Would he have said "I hate the blues" to Dickie Peterson's face? Maybe. Would Dickie give him the time of day after? Not likely. Would Dickie wince and walk away? I think so. I suspect he wouldn't be that arsed to be honest. Most people don't wince and walk away in real life when someone says they hate something that the other likes. Not in my world anyway.
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keith a 9573 posts |
Nov 06, 2009, 21:17
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sakedelic wrote: Maybe I got a bit hung up on his choice of the words "I hate the blues" when all he meant was "I hate myself when I hear Bukka White or Skip James because they make me realize what a shallow, talentless hack I am, so I prefer not to go there." Personally I think going on someone's website and calling them "shallow" and "talentless" is pretty poor form. And all this because you don't like one sentence in a tribute article? Blimey. Imagine if he'd had slagged off your beloved Blue Cheer. Still, if it wasn't that sentence it'd be something else, wouldn't it. Any excuse to have a pop at Cope, eh? |
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Edited Nov 06, 2009, 22:54
Nov 06, 2009, 22:52
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Writers often get hyperbolic when writing about music (especially if they are musicians themselves!) On the one hand, nothing is more boring than "blues" worshipping old hacks like Clapton and the Rolling Stones. But then, I wouldn't call that BLUES music per se, hence the quotes around "blues." It's more like "blues-flavored popular music." "Real blues" is more like folk music. If you want to get technical, it's a pentatonic scale and a bunch of conventional chord changes (I - IV - I - V - IV - I etc.) I hardly ever listen to any "blues" unless it's some sort of mutated blues-based-but-not-"blues" music like The Stooges. However as a musician, I use blues riffs constantly, as does most everyone else. It's the vocabulary of most rock/folk as well as popular music. One of my favorite raps on the blues was something J. Lennon said once upon a time about how "the blues is a chair" -- meaning it's a foundation/support more than "art in and of itself." You can do just about anything in that "chair", it doesn't really imply good or bad, it's just a framework. (I think Julian probably gets it, but is just exagerating to make a point. Like that Bangs/Hendrix "interview", which is a classic.)
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