handofdave
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Grenade thrown
Nov 06, 2009, 17:58
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Obviously meant to get a reaction.
I agree when it comes to some contemporary blues... there's a tired sameness to a lot of it these days.
Very formulaic, lots of BB King imitation guitar licks, by-the-numbers horn sections, etc.
Like a lot of other older genres that have become the fiefdom of a few producers and labels, and serve an audience that likes to have all the rough edges sanded down.
Most modern blues is pretty dull, but it's not a dull genre in itself. I mean, rock and roll wouldn't exist without it, so it's kind of stupid to say 'I hate the blues' without qualifying it.
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Lawrence
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sakedelic wrote: "there's something limiting about a music form based stringently on three chords and twelve bars"
If you think that's all the blues is, you are as clueless as JC.
You sound like one of my parents talking about rock music.
Poppycock! I know there's more to the blues. I'm not saying that Howling Wolf and all those guys never transcended the form. Maybe I tend to think that way because nowadays there's plenty of people calling themselves 'bluesmen' without even understanding the blues...
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sakedelic
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"I read it as he doesn't really get on with Cream et al, all that Blues based heavy rock type thing that was around at the same time, but he digs Blue Cheer"
If "I hate Cream et al" is what he meant when he wrote "I hate the blues" then JC is more of an imbecile than I imagined possible.
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dodge one
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sakedelic wrote:
If "I hate Cream et al" is what he meant when he wrote "I hate the blues" then JC is more of an imbecile than I imagined possible.
Thats throwing down the gauntlet all right..
So i suppose that you and Julian will be having a dust up behind the school building then?
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sakedelic
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Re: Grenade thrown
Nov 06, 2009, 18:06
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every genre of music has its share of mediocrity. Sure, lots of blues is staid and boring, by the books bullshit, but so is most rock music.
You wouldn't say "I hate rock music" just because Bruce Springsteen came up on your radio would you?
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sakedelic
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Re: Re:
Nov 06, 2009, 18:09
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I did say "if". I don't think he meant that. I think he meant
All wrapped up the same
All wrapped up the same
They can't have it
You can't have it
I can't have it too
Until I learn to accept my reward
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dodge one
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Re: Re:
Nov 06, 2009, 18:11
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sakedelic wrote: I did say "if". I don't think he meant that. I think he meant
All wrapped up the same
All wrapped up the same
They can't have it
You can't have it
I can't have it too
Until I learn to accept my reward
Damn....i was hoping to get to see somebody knock his wonky hat off.
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IanB
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Edited Nov 06, 2009, 18:59
Re: Grenade thrown
Nov 06, 2009, 18:56
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sakedelic wrote: every genre of music has its share of mediocrity. Sure, lots of blues is staid and boring, by the books bullshit, but so is most rock music.
So is most of music period.
Music's virtue and its problem is that the entry-level qualifications are hands, ears and something / anything to bang, thrash or blow. And not even that if you are content with the sound of your own voice. So inevitalbly most genres are clogged with crap but you can't blame the Blues for 1000 Stevie Ray knock-offs any more than you can blame Art Pepper for Kenny G. I fail to see the difference between the Stones doing "Little Red Rooster" and The Damned playing "I Feel Alright" or The Doors' "Roadhouse Blues". The roots are the same the rest is in the ear of the beholder.
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keith a
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Edited Nov 06, 2009, 19:05
Re:
Nov 06, 2009, 19:04
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sakedelic wrote:
I thought I knew what I was talking about, but I very surely did not have a clue.
Reading this rather pathetic post makes me wonder if some things never change.
sakedelic wrote:
A rock musician saying "I hate the blues," is like a painter saying "I hate blue," a chef saying "I hate bluefish". Like a punk saying "I hate rock music".
What's your point? That we should all conform?
An artist can like or dislike whatever music/colour he wants.
Colin Newman doesn't like rock'n'roll. I do. It makes no difference to my appreciation of Wire.
And if Julian Cope doesn't like the blues, well so what?
Still, who does Cope think he is?
Expressing an opinion on his own website. What a wanker, eh.
sakedelic wrote:
I love Blue Cheer. I loved Blue Cheer in the 80s, more than 5 years before JC thinks anyone loved Blue Cheer.
Get you.
sakedelic wrote:
Julian Cope makes music I have never given a shit about and he doesn't know what he's talking about when he writes about rock music.
I don't mean to sound rude, but why don't you fuck off from his website then?
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Hunter T Wolfe
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"I hate the blues" - I take it to mean that he, personally, doesn't enjoy listening to blues music, and so he was therefore surprised to find himself enjoying Blue Cheer, who he acknowledges are blues-derived.
I think it's a personal taste thing. He's not trying to knock The Blues off their historical perch. He didn't make a statement 'blues music is rubbish,' he just admitted that he personally didn't enjoy listening to it. And there's no law that says everyone has to like, or even pretend to like, listening to any particular genre of music just because it is undeniably important and furthermore to those who do like it full of variation and depth and subtlety and so on?
Lots of people on this forum say they hate jazz, which is just as much of a blanket dismissal of a vast range of very varied music that is also historically hugely important to the whole field of popular music. But they are within their rights to say they don't like it, if that's how they feel. So chill out somewhat.
By inference and by his previous statements on the subject though, I think if Julian does have any case against the blues it's that it's a bit old hat these days, that the genre has to an extent become defined by its cliches, and that in rock music 12-bar blues is often a default setting that can become a limitation stopping more interesting experimentation? Like Eno's statement about putting any three rock musicians in a room and telling them to improvise, and they'll immediately just start jamming on the blues rather than do anything more original, which is why he likes to work with non-musicians or throw a spanner in the works with his oblique strategies.
Me, I like blues (and jazz) but I think it's a fair point.
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