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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited May 12, 2009, 18:15
May 12, 2009, 18:07
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riotmaster wrote: some people really do think about music too much. you either like it or you don't it doesn't need justifying or deliberating surely ? its just music. one mans Smiths is another mans shit sandwich and so on Bon Jovi are no more or less valid than anyone else either IMO. unless you are a music snob of course My point precisely. I actually liked the big Bon Jovi records and their Wembley Arena show in (I think) 1988 was fabulous. I was referring to JBJ the marketing genius rather than JBJ the pop star. He was giving record company staff lectures in demograpohics before "Slippery When Wet" was released and back when marketing was an ad in Kerrang.
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
May 12, 2009, 18:10
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True. Tis strange. I guess bands like U2 must be guaranteed to shift a couple of million of a new album just on the global fanbase alone, but, yeah, even their album dropped out the top ten after a couple of weeks. But the drop off in sales with the likes of Kaiser Chiefs and Franz Ferdinand can't be anything to do with the music per se - they hardly went for a sonic overhaul did they? Guess the ADHD accelerated culture thing is spreading like a virus. New! Next! Now! Yet, that last Kings Of Leon album has been in the UK top ten for ages. Who is still buying it?! Times are indeed a changin, even in the big leagues.
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keith a 9576 posts |
May 12, 2009, 18:54
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IanB wrote: There is nothing quite as sad as a middle aged man being down with da indie kids in an attempt to stay current. The cultural comb-over. What? If that's a dig at me it's mis-placed, seeing as most of my fave's are - sadly! - knocking on a bit these days. I will not, however, refuse to listen someone because they young and I'm not - sadly! Bloody hell! How bitter must that be? IanB wrote: I do suspect Keith that you would be far less generous to anyone of the age of 25 basing their career on say the second and third Scorpions records. Well seeing as I don't like The Scorpions I'd be unlikely to like someone's who is influenced by them. IanB wrote: Which is where you and I always part company - the point where taste assumes the consistency of a concrete vantage point. A vantage point from which it is possible to argue that one kind of pop music is in essence more valuable than another. Perhaps you need to re-read some of your posts here. You're as guity of that as anyone here, surely? IanB wrote: As Alan Bennett has it in the History Boys "his crap or my crap - it makes no difference". As for whose crap makes into the pantheon, to misquote Chou En-lai, "Ii's too early to tell". Ephemera is in the eye of the beholder and it really is *all* ephemera. As a Dollar fan you really must see that, no? Well I like a couple of singles, but I wouldn't say I'm a fully paid member of their fan club. Anyway, I dunno what you're on about. I just thought they had catchy tunes and a nice production.
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Hunter T Wolfe 1710 posts |
May 12, 2009, 19:09
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IanB wrote: Hunter T Wolfe wrote: IanB wrote: Though in this day and age if you are not good looking, or at least striking in a cartoon manner, then you are probably fucked either way. Ahem... Coldplay? Elbow? The Kaiser Chiefs? . All 90s bands. All last century. What's in the music press, what 30 year olds listen to and what teenagers are getting hot and bothered over are miles apart. It's all gone very boys-will-be-girls and J-Rock of the Dir En Grey variety. Tokio Hotel (who are German) being a pretty good example of the look. No idea what the music is like and I am not sure anyone cares. Nineties bands? Coldplay- first album released in 2000. Kaiser Chiefs- first album released in 2005. Elbow- first album released in 2001. All three still shifting huge amounts. Tokio Hotel have had one charting single in the UK. It reached number 77. And we weren't neccesarily talking about what 17 year olds listen to, were we? I thought you were just listing the requirements generally neccesary to have a successful music career these days. You made some good points, too. I'm just nit-picking, really. And yes, Mooncat, I will grant you that Elbow have so much more to them than Coldplay. My point was that they managed to achieve their success without exactly being glammed up pretty boys.
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Edited May 12, 2009, 19:21
May 12, 2009, 19:20
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Indeedly. Which is why I was replying to Ian re: Elbow. I think ColdPlay & The Kaiser Chiefs have achieved a 'bedroom wall' indie pin-up status regardless of how they actually, physically look, though Chris Martin isn't exactly an ugly dude, purely 'cos 'indie' is pretty much the mainstream these days. Pin-up Status is not always a guarantor of being good-looking in any traditional sense. I mean, look at the Osmonds - apart from Donny most of 'em were munters and people willingly stuck them AND Gary Glitter on their walls! With pop, attractiveness can sell records, but sometimes selling records can also make you attractive - even if you've got a face like a tin of slugs.
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vince 1628 posts |
May 12, 2009, 23:09
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Finally got to hear this this morning after wondering what all the fuss was about. I hear Bruce Gilbert, MBV, a Joy Divison rhythm section & some strained 6th form poetry... It has a charming, youthful energy & a certain amount of naiivety. No classic, but better than anything i've heard from Interpol, iLiketrains & the like. It's alright. No more, no less. I've heard much worse.
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keith a 9576 posts |
May 13, 2009, 03:05
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vince wrote: I hear Bruce Gilbert, MBV, a Joy Divison rhythm section & some strained 6th form poetry... Sounds brilliant!
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vince 1628 posts |
May 13, 2009, 03:46
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keith a wrote: vince wrote: I hear Bruce Gilbert, MBV, a Joy Divison rhythm section & some strained 6th form poetry... Sounds brilliant! Ha! Forgot to add...the Krautrock influence? Just the one track. And it's one of the better tracks on the album. I think it's interesting that it's created so much conjecture....
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Lonesome Cowboy Bill 356 posts |
May 13, 2009, 09:29
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Good to see 4 pages worth of banter on this subject. Bad to see that there's opinions along the lines of reaching a certain age means you can't listen to new 'indie' bands anymore without embarrassing yourself. I pray to Allah that when I'm knocking on a bit that I'll still get a rush and dizzy grin from some new band that 'da kids' may be liking. If it floats your ear boats then whats's the problem. As for creating an image to sell records.....hasn't this been done since the dawn of time? The Stones spring to mind straight away. Ooooh look, we're bad boys playing bad boy blues. No you're not. You're from Dartford, you go to the LSE and you're quite well spoken (well, until the mockney effect kicked in).
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited May 13, 2009, 10:05
May 13, 2009, 09:50
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Hunter T Wolfe wrote: IanB wrote: Hunter T Wolfe wrote: IanB wrote: Though in this day and age if you are not good looking, or at least striking in a cartoon manner, then you are probably fucked either way. Ahem... Coldplay? Elbow? The Kaiser Chiefs? . All 90s bands. All last century. What's in the music press, what 30 year olds listen to and what teenagers are getting hot and bothered over are miles apart. It's all gone very boys-will-be-girls and J-Rock of the Dir En Grey variety. Tokio Hotel (who are German) being a pretty good example of the look. No idea what the music is like and I am not sure anyone cares. Nineties bands? Coldplay- first album released in 2000. Kaiser Chiefs- first album released in 2005. Elbow- first album released in 2001. All three still shifting huge amounts. Tokio Hotel have had one charting single in the UK. It reached number 77. And we weren't neccesarily talking about what 17 year olds listen to, were we? I thought you were just listing the requirements generally neccesary to have a successful music career these days. You made some good points, too. I'm just nit-picking, really. And yes, Mooncat, I will grant you that Elbow have so much more to them than Coldplay. My point was that they managed to achieve their success without exactly being glammed up pretty boys. I am not adverse to a bit of good natured nit picking myself. The acts we are taking about were going for years before they had records out which is why I think of them as 90s bands. No biggie either way, I think what I am trying and failing to get at is What the current generation of music fans really care about and what sells or is written about are two (possibly three) totally different things I am talking about what gets people's blood racing not what a handful of people are buying on iTunes or what is written about in magazines that no one buys any more and are kept afloat by ads from Warners, Sony and Universal. As for Tokio Hotel I have no idea what they sound like but they look like a better looking and Manga inspired version of er .... early Japan. Though they actually look like rock stars rather than shop assistants from Kensington Market circa 1981. I imagine no one cares what they sound like but I bet they sell a lot of posters! Which is where our musical culture is at and how The Horrors could eventually score big. If Tokio Hotel came from Bury or Basingstoke they'd be absolutely massive and still no one would care what they sound like.It wouldn't matter if they sold any records or not. What things sound like is the big irrelvancy. With so much music available for free (lets face it everything is available for free) what something looks like is what opens the door to mass appeal. Which is why all those other earnest and honest music makers we talked about are something I see as being from a different era. I am not crowing about this sorry state of affairs or decrying it. It's just the way it appears to me.
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