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Popel Vooje
5373 posts

Edited May 13, 2009, 14:18
Re: THERE IS NO 'NEW' Wooden Shjips LP, that's for sure
May 13, 2009, 11:42
Hunter T Wolfe wrote:



Wooden Shjips, they're a nondescript-looking bunch of Americans on a little label




...which is presumably why their new LP has already gone - at least temporarily - out of print, despite having been released just over a month ago. Can't even get a copy for the NSA - think they're ready to jump ship (no pun intended) to a larger label with enough distribution muscle to get their albums in the shops outside of the U.S.
Hunter T Wolfe
Hunter T Wolfe
1710 posts

Re: The Horrors new LP
May 13, 2009, 12:00
Interesting points, Ian. I too have no idea of what Tokio Hotel sound like, and don't really want to know- I'd rather keep my fantasy that they are, as you say, some 21st Century Manga-inspired hybrid of The New York Dolls and early Japan. Like Sigue Sigue Sputnik should have sounded. In reality, they probably make Sputnik sound like genius in comparison.

But still, isn't the phenomenon you're talking about restricted mainly to pre-teen music fans- and hasn't it always been that way, from the early Beatles to The Osmonds to Duran Duran etc? If the music wasn't secondary, how could there have been so much antipathy between Durannies and Wham fans, if it wasn't just about subscribing to a certain look?

I agree though when you say that music being free and so widely available- and so much of it, albeit mostly within a very narrow range- has devalued it to the generation who've grown up online. They still flock to live music at the big festivals, but that seems to be more about 'the experience' (the queues? the overpriced shit drinks? The crappy burgers? The rain and mud?) than the draw of any particular band.

I don't know what the pre-teenies are into these days, but I do still know a few late teenagers and they seem actually less concerned with image and more concerned with music as a functional lifestyle accompaniment- Ipod fodder- than generations past. Maybe it's because the record sleeve and to a large extent music TV is a thing of the past- even MTV is cutting back on it's actual music video coverage- but the look actually seems less important, certainly in Britain and America. In a way that's a shame.

Sometimes bands can be all image and no substance of course, but often I think if a band works on the way it looks and presents itself, then that can suggest they've put more thought into the music too, and the effect they want it to have- certainly if we're talking 'High Pop', where a band's impact can be as much sociological as purely musical. Take The Who, Bowie, Bolan, The Pistols- that's when pop can really have an impact, beyond the music- it wasn't just the Sex Pistols' songs that changed peoples' lives- and inflame passions to imagine some greater artistic vision, a whole way of life, a crack in the consensual tedium etc.

And finally, concerning The Horrors- even if I grant that you or I may have heard it all before, the same could surely be said (and was said by our elders), of the bands we listened to when we were 17. The Horrors at least seem to have good taste, and will probably lead their fans to explore their original influences- indeed, this is something they actively encourage by giving out free zines and mix CDs at gigs. I think it's great that there is a pop band, aimed at teenagers and not much older themselves, who are making contemporary chartbound sounds that reference MBV, The Shangri-Las, The Psychedelic Furs, Neu etc. To criticise them for not being The Flower-Corsano duo is missing the point.
Squid Tempest
Squid Tempest
8769 posts

Re: THERE IS NO 'NEW' Wooden Shjips LP, that's for sure
May 13, 2009, 12:01
Popel Vooje wrote:
Hunter T Wolfe wrote:



Wooden Shjips, they're a nondescript-looking bunch of Americans on a little label




This is presumably why their new LP has already gone - at least temporarily - out of print, despite having been released less than a month ago. Can't even get a copy for the NSA - think they're ready to jump ship (no pun intended) to a larger label with enough distribution muscle to get their albums in the shops outside of California.


Norman records seem to have copies of the vinyl available:
http://www.normanrecords.com/records/106191

and this place might have it on CD:
http://www.actionrecords.co.uk

Don't know if that is of any use!
Hunter T Wolfe
Hunter T Wolfe
1710 posts

Re: THERE IS NO 'NEW' Wooden Shjips LP, that's for sure
May 13, 2009, 12:08
Maybe a temporary glitch- I'm sure my local record shop still has the CD. I bought the vinyl and got a code to download the whole thing as MP3s- if you really can't buy it anywhere, let me know and I'll pass that on.
Lonesome Cowboy Bill
Lonesome Cowboy Bill
356 posts

Re: THERE IS NO 'NEW' Wooden Shjips LP, that's for sure
May 13, 2009, 13:46
Rough Trade East has plenty of the Wooden Shjips on their shelves.

Talking of The Horrors influences.........Rough Trade have the album as their album of the month and have a wall dedicated to it and their influences with music by the likes of Neu!, Can, Psychedelic Furs, Sonic Youth, MBV, La Dusseldorf etc etc etc. All done with little write ups of each album.

Now, if I was a teenybopping Horror head shopping in Rough Trade I'd be overjoyed to see all that on show and would no doubt delve into some of the recommended albums. I love the way that can happen.
Popel Vooje
5373 posts

Re: THERE IS NO 'NEW' Wooden Shjips LP, that's for sure
May 13, 2009, 14:21
Lonesome Cowboy Bill wrote:
Rough Trade East has plenty of the Wooden Shjips on their shelves.







Ah - the one London indie shop which I haven't yet tried. Sister Ray and the other Rough Trade branch in Covent Garden didn't have any, and told me it was out of stock with the suppplier. Same with amazon - a few vendors are claiming to stock it, but I ordered one two weeks ago and haven't received it yet.
Popel Vooje
5373 posts

Edited May 13, 2009, 14:32
Re: THERE IS NO 'NEW' Wooden Shjips LP, that's for sure
May 13, 2009, 14:25
Hunter T Wolfe wrote:

Maybe a temporary glitch- I'm sure my local record shop still has the CD. I bought the vinyl and got a code to download the whole thing as MP3s- if you really can't buy it anywhere, let me know and I'll pass that on.


Yes - I suspect that what's happened is that the label didn't, or couldn't, press up enough copies to meet demand, and that there'll be another batch pressed up as soon as the costs of releasing the first pressing have been recouped. Same thing happened to Husker Du when they made "Zen Arcade" - SST only pressed 3,000 and they all sold out within a fortnight, meaning it wasn't available for several months afterwards.

I've had it on order from amazon for two weeks, and on the advice of Lonsome Cowboy Bill I'm going to try Rough Trade East as well, but if they don't come up trumps I may well take you up on your kind offer...
Lonesome Cowboy Bill
Lonesome Cowboy Bill
356 posts

Re: THERE IS NO 'NEW' Wooden Shjips LP, that's for sure
May 13, 2009, 14:49
Popel Vooje wrote:
Hunter T Wolfe wrote:

Maybe a temporary glitch- I'm sure my local record shop still has the CD. I bought the vinyl and got a code to download the whole thing as MP3s- if you really can't buy it anywhere, let me know and I'll pass that on.


Yes - I suspect that what's happened is that the label didn't, or couldn't, press up enough copies to meet demand, and that there'll be another batch pressed up as soon as the costs of releasing the first pressing have been recouped. Same thing happened to Husker Du when they made "Zen Arcade" - SST only pressed 3,000 and they all sold out within a fortnight, meaning it wasn't available for several months afterwards.

I've had it on order from amazon for two weeks, and on the advice of Lonsome Cowboy Bill I'm going to try Rough Trade East as well, but if they don't come up trumps I may well take you up on your kind offer...


I know they had it on cd yesterday, not sure about the vinyl. They'll prob have the 2nd disc still going as well. Great shop. It's near to my work so I do find myself dropping by in my lunch hours, if only for a browse and to hear what they're playing in there. They do a good chocolate milkshake too.
Stevo
Stevo
6664 posts

Re: THERE IS NO 'NEW' Wooden Shjips LP, that's for sure
May 13, 2009, 16:16
It was the way I discovered a lot of music. comparisons to older stuff led me from the Birthday Party back to Pere Ubu and the Pop Group to name a couple.

also from the Gun Club to a number of delta blues, country ragtime artists.

both of those back when NME was actually good.

the portrait of the artist as a consumer series led me to even more stuff.
IanB
IanB
6761 posts

Edited May 13, 2009, 17:54
Re: The Horrors new LP
May 13, 2009, 17:13
Hunter T Wolfe wrote:

Interesting points, Ian. I too have no idea of what Tokio Hotel sound like, and don't really want to know- I'd rather keep my fantasy that they are, as you say, some 21st Century Manga-inspired hybrid of The New York Dolls and early Japan. Like Sigue Sigue Sputnik should have sounded. In reality, they probably make Sputnik sound like genius in comparison.

But still, isn't the phenomenon you're talking about restricted mainly to pre-teen music fans- and hasn't it always been that way, from the early Beatles to The Osmonds to Duran Duran etc? If the music wasn't secondary, how could there have been so much antipathy between Durannies and Wham fans, if it wasn't just about subscribing to a certain look?

I agree though when you say that music being free and so widely available- and so much of it, albeit mostly within a very narrow range- has devalued it to the generation who've grown up online. They still flock to live music at the big festivals, but that seems to be more about 'the experience' (the queues? the overpriced shit drinks? The crappy burgers? The rain and mud?) than the draw of any particular band.

I don't know what the pre-teenies are into these days, but I do still know a few late teenagers and they seem actually less concerned with image and more concerned with music as a functional lifestyle accompaniment- Ipod fodder- than generations past. Maybe it's because the record sleeve and to a large extent music TV is a thing of the past- even MTV is cutting back on it's actual music video coverage- but the look actually seems less important, certainly in Britain and America. In a way that's a shame.

Sometimes bands can be all image and no substance of course, but often I think if a band works on the way it looks and presents itself, then that can suggest they've put more thought into the music too, and the effect they want it to have- certainly if we're talking 'High Pop', where a band's impact can be as much sociological as purely musical. Take The Who, Bowie, Bolan, The Pistols- that's when pop can really have an impact, beyond the music- it wasn't just the Sex Pistols' songs that changed peoples' lives- and inflame passions to imagine some greater artistic vision, a whole way of life, a crack in the consensual tedium etc.

And finally, concerning The Horrors- even if I grant that you or I may have heard it all before, the same could surely be said (and was said by our elders), of the bands we listened to when we were 17. The Horrors at least seem to have good taste, and will probably lead their fans to explore their original influences- indeed, this is something they actively encourage by giving out free zines and mix CDs at gigs. I think it's great that there is a pop band, aimed at teenagers and not much older themselves, who are making contemporary chartbound sounds that reference MBV, The Shangri-Las, The Psychedelic Furs, Neu etc. To criticise them for not being The Flower-Corsano duo is missing the point.



Huge subject and probably more important than what we individually think about The Horrors ;-). I like the sound of both their records (my youngest who is 14 now worships them almost as much as she loves McFly) but the lack of memorable songs bugs me. They have great taste and I really don't care one jot that they sound like something old. As you (and Keith) point out that is as much of a fool's errand as hanging on to a band for reasons of nostalgia alone. I just wish they could write as well as they do the dressing up thing. The songs to me sound like they are at an early Wasted Youth / pre 83 Sisters of Mercy / Virgin Prunes b side level. Maybe that's unfair. I am not as hardline as some of the other critics of The Horrors on this board but I totally see where they are coming from.

Anyway I think you are also right about the festivals. Seems to be like stamp collecting but with bands "seen them, seen them, seen them, hate them, want to see them" etc etc.

I love bands that put effort into their visual thing be it Kiss, Sun Ra, Art Ensemble of Chicago, Floyd, Parliament or Japan circa Adoloscent Sex and I think you are absolutely right about there being a connection between visual creativity and musical output. That said a very visual act with no memorable songs is destined for a fast track to the where are they now file. So back to my first point. I'll give any band (except Ocean Colour Scene) three records to hit their stride. Especially a particularly fine looking one.

My eldest daughter who is 23 (a pre-internet pre-teen) went through the exact same pattern of following bands that I did including seeing a support band in a theatre or an arena and then following them at club level, collecting all the singles etc etc. Her two younger sisters love 70s music from both sides of the Punk divide but as pop fans they get excited by Dir En Grey and Tokio Hotel because they look exactly the way they want a band to look. Their music is definitely secondary but my 14 year old's favourite record is probably "Crocodiles" and that's nothing at all to do with me. It seems much more complicated and far less about a clear separation of what is cool and uncool that I remember from the 70s.

On the other hand the band of 14 year olds who have supported The Dunes a few times are into Beefheart and Musique Concrete and so impressed Damo Suzuki that he wrote about them in his newsletter. Perhaps the fact that in the pre MTV era we were so reliant on three or four papers, two or three radio shows and a tiny amount of tv coverage accounts for a lot of this lack of cohesion?
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