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Unsung Forum » Any American Prog Experts? |
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Hunter T Wolfe 1708 posts |
Nov 23, 2008, 14:18
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I'm certainly no expert, and I guess they're not really prog, but Paul Kantner's 'Blows Against the Empire' and 'Sunfighter' LPs spring to mind, for their quasi-pastoral utopianism, revolutionary politics and sci-fi take on American frontier spirit. I don't think there is a direct American equivalent of English prog though- just assorted brands of psychedelia, jazz fusion, avant garde and hard rock. Shame- your idea of a fusion of Whitman, Reich and Dick sounds marvellous... true 'cosmic american music...'
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zphage 3378 posts |
Nov 23, 2008, 14:32
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Hunter T Wolfe wrote: I'm certainly no expert, and I guess they're not really prog, but Paul Kantner's 'Blows Against the Empire' and 'Sunfighter' LPs spring to mind, for their quasi-pastoral utopianism, revolutionary politics and sci-fi take on American frontier spirit. I don't think there is a direct American equivalent of English prog though- just assorted brands of psychedelia, jazz fusion, avant garde and hard rock. Shame- your idea of a fusion of Whitman, Reich and Dick sounds marvellous... true 'cosmic american music...' The whole scene: http://www.planetearthrockandroll.com/pephist.htm
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phallus dei 583 posts |
Nov 23, 2008, 14:50
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I don't know if they were similar at all to British stuff, but Yahowha 13 certainly criticized industrialized consumerism with an idealized nature-centered utopia in a pysch, sometimes krautrock, way.
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Stevo 6664 posts |
Nov 23, 2008, 16:10
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Hunter T Wolfe wrote: I'm certainly no expert, and I guess they're not really prog, but Paul Kantner's 'Blows Against the Empire' and 'Sunfighter' LPs spring to mind, for their quasi-pastoral utopianism, revolutionary politics and sci-fi take on American frontier spirit. That was what i was referring to above as the early Grunt label stuff. JA were granted a custom label by their main label & put out several items along those lines. I had Baron von Tollbooth & The Chrome Nun running through my head as I wrote the above & there are a few tracks on that that verge on the prog. But yeah, there's a lot of the Marin County material from right around then 70-73ish that seems to verge on that. Don't know if that's exactly co-existent/spatial to the PERRO stuff or if there's anything it doesn't quite cover. Would also cite Relatively Clean Rivers who were definitely into the getting away to the country thing. They were apparently so anti mainstream capitalism that they would stick lps in unsuspecting record store racks without telling the owners. Not sure how that worked out if somebody picked up the lp concerned, or if they were stickered as free. There's also the band Mu, the Captain Beefheart/Merrell fankhauser spinoff band who relocated to a commune in Hawaii. A lot of their material has a sci fi theme, other stuff is somewhat animist which might tie in with Walt Whitman. Stevo
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gogmagog 176 posts |
Edited Nov 25, 2008, 21:11
Nov 23, 2008, 18:45
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the americans really have no INDIVIDUAL take ON PROG - in my opinion - only derivative takes on the European model; PROG being, first and foremost, a quintessentailly EUROPEAN sensibility (not quintessentially ENGLISH, tho it is that too!), [maybe its a quintessentially ENGLISH take on European late-romantic classicism, mixed with rock, jazz, and avant-garde idioms]. But, that said, there IS some good American stuff out there - although you really have to search for it - and trial'n'error is responsible for a sizeable number of black holes in my wage packets thru the years: BUT - off the top of my head, in terms of SEVENTIES stuff: You definietely wanna get a grip of RAM's 1972 Lp on Polydor, "Where: in Conclusion" 1972 (see my HH review for more), Quite Golden Earring-like at times (which ain't a bad thing in my book) but reaching into Floyd, Purple, and even a Bernard Paganotti-like bass solo which has to be heard to be believed - the 20min full-sider stands with anything I've heard from the English prog scene (Although its not complex prog, its very atmospheric). also: YEZDA URFA's BORIS, or is it, BORIS' YEZDA URFA (1975) - either way they are the US Gentle Giant, by way of ELP (at times) HAPPY THE MAN's first self-titled Lp (ARISTA) (78? is it??). This is a great album I think, and, in parts, quite dark at times. COME - ONE (1972) is this one of the Grunt Lp's you refer to Stevo? This is a brilliant piece of work - equal parts prog and psych - and would have been what The Manson family would have sounded like if a) they were NICE people and b) musically talented! In terms of the Quebec/Canadian stuff you must know HARMONIUM IanB? Their Les cinq Saisons Lp is a MASTERPIECE of pastoral prog!!! In fact, its so pastoral it makes Trespass-era Genesis sound like the fucking Human League!! STEER CLEAR OF GABRIREL BONDAGE PLUS there is the panoply of recent US bands, MARS VOLTA, GRAILS, VETIVER, and all that malarkey. regards, GOGMAGOG
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gogmagog 176 posts |
Edited Nov 25, 2008, 21:08
Nov 25, 2008, 21:07
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Couple more names came to me IanB re: the American prog scene the amazingly Sabbath-meets-Big Star of SEOMPI (See my HH review) and the irrepressible BLOODROCK - esp. album "2" and "Whirlwind Tounges" - great stuff! regards GOGMAGOG Np: McCoy Tyner EXTENSIONS (1970)
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Edited Nov 25, 2008, 22:02
Nov 25, 2008, 21:43
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I would say the whole "jazz rock" movement of the late sixties was pretty much the American equivalent of prog: Electric Flag, Blood Sweat & Tears, Chicago, Pacific Gas & Electric, The Flock, Dreams, lots of other lesser known groups. American music is all about the blues and group improvisation around folk themes. The "classical composer" concept (Mozart et al) just doesn't fit well. There is something "too European" in groups like ELP, with their frankly classist notions of "enlightening the masses with classical music and references to great literature." American equivalent might be "Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops" or something (ultra-lightweight classical orchestra prone to using disco beats.) Though there is the strange case of Zappa/Mothers, who were probably the root of the whole thing on both sides of the ocean music-wise if not in terms of imagery and lyrics. My pet theory is that the MOI + orchestra Royal Albert Hall gig of 1968 was the shot that launched the prog revolution. But Zappa was "very European" for an American (both parents were immigrants I believe.) The most similar American groups to what you describe are basically copycat groups -- Starcastle from Illinois is the best example (they sound exactly like Yes. Surprisingly, Chicago seems to have been the center for this type of music in the USA. Styx also from the area; their style was a mix of Brit Classic Rock plus a little bit of a Broadway/showtune sensibility.) Kansas (the band) was somewhat proggish, but they're so bland I can't really get my head around them. (Violin was an important part of their sound I guess . . . zzzzzz.) One you might actually find interesting is the group Dixie Dregs -- they were sort of like a southern-fried version of the Mahavishnu Orchestra (bunch of music grad students from Florida.) [EDIT -- see now you've already been there done that! And that more than a few of my ideas have already come up . . . ]
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Nov 25, 2008, 21:58
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Hey! I've got RAM and GABRIEL BONDAGE and agree with your assessments on both! ;-)
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Edited Nov 25, 2008, 22:08
Nov 25, 2008, 22:07
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Boston seems like a US prog band built on the European model. Steely Dan is more like the "native" American version of prog (an extension of the 60's jazz-rock of BS&T, Spirit, etc. . . . plus a big dollop of "Positively Fourth Street".)
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Edited Nov 25, 2008, 22:11
Nov 25, 2008, 22:10
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How d'ya suppose Dylan & The Band fit in to all this? Couldn't folkie-goes-electric be seen as the prog of '65? (And those cats from The Band play their instruments as well as anybody ever has . . . especially Garth Hudson. Epic organ solo anyone?) Not sure how much the "space" stuff is important . . .
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