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keith a 9576 posts |
Sep 27, 2008, 11:50
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Siouxsie has always been open about her love of the likes of Roxy and Bolan. Indeed, the Banshees were playing 20th Century Boy live in 1977. She discusses what she liked (Johnny RememBer Me, Leader of the Pack) pre that period in the rather good The Auth Biog by Mark Paytress. Well worth a read even if she does come across as a bit of a prat at times!
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keith a 9576 posts |
Sep 27, 2008, 12:04
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I'm not suggesting everyone should lie on bed all day, but not everyone is suited to working hard, Ian. There's lots of hard working musicians out there, and good luck to them, but lets not get work ethics and talent mixed up. It's probably fair to say that Eric Clapton is a harder working musician than Lee Mavers, but I know who I prefer. I'm not a great musician by any stretch of the imagination (I prefer writing songs to improving my playing), but I do know that you have to want to do it. I went through a spell of about 5 yrs where I barely picked the guitar up. I never thought that this would happen to me, but I really didn't have any interest in playing and on the odd occasion I did pick it up it didn't feel right. I couldn't have faked it. I know that there was a pretty good chance that if I had written anything during that time it would have been pretty shit. Eventually, it came back and I love playing/writing again. Surely people should work at their own pace and however it suits them?
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PMM 3155 posts |
Sep 27, 2008, 12:07
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Works for Half Man Half Biscuit :)
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 27, 2008, 17:34
Sep 27, 2008, 17:19
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keith a wrote: I'm not suggesting everyone should lie on bed all day, but not everyone is suited to working hard, Ian. There's lots of hard working musicians out there, and good luck to them, but lets not get work ethics and talent mixed up. It's probably fair to say that Eric Clapton is a harder working musician than Lee Mavers, but I know who I prefer. I'm not a great musician by any stretch of the imagination (I prefer writing songs to improving my playing), but I do know that you have to want to do it. I went through a spell of about 5 yrs where I barely picked the guitar up. I never thought that this would happen to me, but I really didn't have any interest in playing and on the odd occasion I did pick it up it didn't feel right. I couldn't have faked it. I know that there was a pretty good chance that if I had written anything during that time it would have been pretty shit. Eventually, it came back and I love playing/writing again. Surely people should work at their own pace and however it suits them? Of course everyone should work at their own pace but someone who describes themselves as an Artist rather than a musician (of whatever quality) should be making art not tabloid tv shows about spiders or whatever. Their job is to make sense of the world for the rest of us. Otherwise they are merely popular entertainers. Which is what I think Lydon is. Look at the greats of 20th century culture and look at their productivity. Here's a quick list off the top of my head - Coltrane, Davis, Parker, Ellington, Bacon, Picasso, Welles, Herzog, Wilson, Fuller, Reich, Adams, Richter, McCullin, Dick, Ligetti, Wenders, Godard, Roth, Updike. Massively productive all. Even when personal circumstances make it all but impossible to move forward. For the greats and the groundbreakers it's a fever. An irrisitable force. A religious calling. Having a work ethic or not is neither here nor there as they are on a plane of involvement in their art that is almost out of their own control. For everyone else (from the least gifted to the notably above average) it's so much of a level playing field that the hardest working tend get the most out of what is there for taking. That's all. I am not talking about you or I as I doubt either of us would describe ourselves as Artists!
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 27, 2008, 17:40
Sep 27, 2008, 17:31
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shanshee_allures wrote: IanB wrote: Vanian, Idol, October, Sioux, Cornwell etc etc are still pretty much what they were when they started (for better or for worse) but when it comes to the Pistols I simply don't believe a word Rotten says. Idol? Hehe. Sorry, can't help laughing at awarding him 'surname respect status':-) I'm not just talkin about his 80s stuff, Generation X were pure Butlins punk surely. Mind you over 90% of it was so fair enough on them. Anyway, I don't consider Eno a 'muso'. I find that puzzling. I don't recall him doing too much noodling. He approaches music like he hasn't got a clue where to start, beautifully. And more often than not he doesn't do the coffee table bit. His mercenary jobbing production ventures are something else, but it don't bother me. Canaxis I think is great too but yes, he does get a bit too Tangerine Dream-y at times. EDIT: Oh, and as for Sioux...was at least heartening to see her praise Roxy in the recent doc (Steve Jones spoke about his love for em too). Sort of contradicts her usual 'punk was year zero, all else before was shit' stance. But she is a bit of a precious moo, ain't she? How very un-punk! :-) x Yes well (Billy) Idol has a lot to answer for. My list was of a quick run down of the most recognisable British lead singers of the first wave of punk bands (I accidentally left out Peter Shelley and deliberately let out Paul Weller). I would argue that Generation X were no where near as shit as people say they were. He was certainly one of the most natural (and easily recognisable) front men of the early Punk era. Muso is a tricky one. I am not sure why Eno isn't considered a muso but Wobble is. Is Eno more or less of a muso than his regular compadre Robert Fripp and are either of them more or less of a muso than Bill Nelson? Or Peter Hammill? If a muso is someone with a worryingly uncool degree of technical facility then is a guitar genius like Nick Harper a muso and more of muso on guitar than his slightly less gifted dad? Was Sly Stone a muso? Is Mick Taylor more or less of a muso than Keef? Were Can musos and Tangerine Dream not or the other way around? Or is muso just a shorthand term we use for someone who can play really well but whose music we don't like?
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Sep 27, 2008, 18:12
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Or are musos really just hacks who just doodle around and can't write a decent song if their life depended on it? There are lots of good musicians that do really amazing things (Vini Reilly for one!) I think it more depends on what you do with that talent once you have it...
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 27, 2008, 21:10
Sep 27, 2008, 21:01
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Lawrence wrote: Or are musos really just hacks who just doodle around and can't write a decent song if their life depended on it? There are lots of good musicians that do really amazing things (Vini Reilly for one!) I think it more depends on what you do with that talent once you have it... Indeed. Which makes it a wholly subjective critical term and not a descrition of what someone is or does. We might as well say "boring" or "self indulgent". Except "muso" sounds like it might vaguely technical and possibly even objective. Vini Reilly is not a muso but he is an inveterate doodler. Coltrane was a doodler but hardly a muso. Blah blah. It's all personal critical bias in the end. One man or woman's waste of space and is someone else's genius. One listener's drug addled waster is another's visionary. Either way music is a lot enjoyable when all notions of cool are dispensed with. Which is why those blind tests they used to run (may still run) in The Wire were so interesting.
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dave clarkson 2988 posts |
Sep 27, 2008, 21:49
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"Yeah he's a bit of a pantomime dame etc but christ, better than the coffee table muso hell Wobble indulges himself in (see Sinead O'Connor for one!)" ...on the contrary dearest Shanshee ;-) Have you heard Wobble's Deep Space band? Check out 'Five Beat' - an album which makes Metal Box sound like a cheap tin can. As a celeb, I think Lydon is great but musically he hasn't done anything worthwhile since Open Up apart from a few good Pistols shows. He's living in the past and can't find a way forward. 8)
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keith a 9576 posts |
Sep 28, 2008, 00:19
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I think Lydon has the right to make TV shows about spiders just as much as Julian has the right to write big heavy tomes about stones. I don't see what the problem is personally.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 28, 2008, 11:13
Sep 28, 2008, 10:11
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keith a wrote: I think Lydon has the right to make TV shows about spiders just as much as Julian has the right to write big heavy tomes about stones. I don't see what the problem is personally. There's not a problem Keith. We just see music in different ways, that's all. The older I got the more I find that life's too short and there is too much music out there for me to be granting head space to the half-hearted. I want to hear from the artists for whom it is calling not from the people who think it's a bit of a giggle. I've literally no time left for irony and nudge-nudge wink-wink rock n roll. Lydon can do what he likes but he forfeits whatever artistry he ever had with this tedious ironic pose. He's stuck in a cartoon of his own drawing. He's Ross Kemp in a punk rock comedy wig. Cope would never make a record while winking at the gallery. He's a true believer. I want to hear from zealots not ironists. Spare us from Popular Entertainers!
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