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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 26, 2008, 17:28
Sep 26, 2008, 17:28
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dave clarkson wrote: Yeah - Lydon was the figurehead and attitude personified rather than an active musical participant. That's why PIL's music took a slow nosedive following Metal Box. That album wouldn't sound half as good without Levene or Wobble. Attitude will only go so far - Mark E Smith is testiment to that which is why there's lots of peaks and troughs in the Fall's musical output. 8) Thanks for reading what I actually wrote ;-) Mark E Smith is a good comparison interms of the influence of band mates though I think he is twce the artist. Saying that I think TV Smith would give Lydon a run for his money.
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Lawrence 9547 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 17:31
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I dunno about TV Smith. The stuff I heard from him lately I didn't think sounded that good.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 17:36
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Lawrence wrote: I dunno about TV Smith. The stuff I heard from him lately I didn't think sounded that good. I was half joking though I do really love "Crossing The Red Sea"
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dave clarkson 2988 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 17:47
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Jimmy Pursey or Nicky Tesco too. 8)
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dave clarkson 2988 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 17:50
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I may be the only person here who thinks Balfe's contribution to the Teardrops was more important than Cope's. **dodges missiles** 8)
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IanB 6761 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 19:17
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dave clarkson wrote: I may be the only person here who thinks Balfe's contribution to the Teardrops was more important than Cope's. **dodges missiles** 8) I think the horde of trench coat wearing, serious looking, floppy fringed post punkers are now chasing you down the street rather than me!
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keith a 9576 posts |
Edited Sep 27, 2008, 00:58
Sep 27, 2008, 00:58
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IanB wrote: Surely you aren't deliberately getting the wrong end of the stick to generate a bit of banter. That's my trick! . I understood what you were saying, Ian. I just didn't agree! I just think that regardless of the assistance he's had, he's made enough great records (and written enough great lyrics) to justified being called an artist as much as most folk (not a term I particularly like though!) And I think he's a great vocalist. Not a great singer, but a great vocalist in his own way. Metal Box is great because of his contribution as much as Wobble and Levine's. And if Lydon had always just cared about the money, he surely wouldn't have followed the relatively radio friendly Public Image 45 with Death Disco which is still one of the most unlikely records to grace TOTP.
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shanshee_allures 2563 posts |
Sep 27, 2008, 08:36
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Geez, I think Lydon's alright! He served his purpose well. How many 'frontmen' matched up to the 'skills of the musicians' anyway? Think you said something about that. A 'dreary whine' all over Metal Box though? Clearly his vocal style doesn't appeal, so that's one reason you don't like him maybe? Or is there anything else to really dislike about him? Poptones for one makes me piss myself laughing everytime. I don't think anyone could have delivered that one better than him insofar as 'suiting the purpose' goes. FWIW at least Lydon realises his limitations. It's others who seem to prick away at him for some reason. Does he really behave as though he is sole creator of everything he's ever done? Dunno, was too young at the time but looks like alot took the bait:-) Yeah he's a bit of a pantomime dame etc but christ, better than the coffee table muso hell Wobble indulges himself in (see Sinead O'Connor for one!) x
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 27, 2008, 10:06
Sep 27, 2008, 10:03
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shanshee_allures wrote: Yeah he's a bit of a pantomime dame etc but christ, better than the coffee table muso hell Wobble indulges himself in (see Sinead O'Connor for one!) x I think that neatly sums up the divide on this one. You know I like a bit of Laswell and Holger and Bill Nelson and Eno and all that "muso hell" every now and again so we are bound to differ a bit on that front. I also like people who work hard at what they do. So that lets JL out on both counts. The tabloid, prole-poking outrage part of the punk rock thing which Lydon seems to still relish is something else entirely. Panto is a good word. Which is where my Arthur Aksey thing came from. He's a great British Entertainer like Michael Caine or Robbie Williams. Nothing wrong with that. Looking back at the class of 77 and the various front men who graced that scene I think Strummer was absolutely the real thing in that whatever punk rock ideals he had when he started he hung on to them despite (or perhaps because of) his failure to live up to them (if you follow me). Vanian, Idol, October, Sioux, Cornwell etc etc are still pretty much what they were when they started (for better or for worse) but when it comes to the Pistols I simply don't believe a word Rotten says. As an aside, 30 years on the genius of punk rock seems to me to have been to have been about people photocopying their own fanzines and glueing singles sleeves together at 3am. It wasn't about the bands who signed to majors and took limos to shows it was about the ones who wouldn't or couldn't. There was self-reliance and even a work-ethic to be had. I am also a big believer in artists having a work-ethic. It should be something you get up and do more or less every day. Which is what Ian Mackaye and the likes of Ani Difranco picked up on. Cope too.
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shanshee_allures 2563 posts |
Edited Sep 27, 2008, 11:23
Sep 27, 2008, 11:04
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IanB wrote: Vanian, Idol, October, Sioux, Cornwell etc etc are still pretty much what they were when they started (for better or for worse) but when it comes to the Pistols I simply don't believe a word Rotten says. Idol? Hehe. Sorry, can't help laughing at awarding him 'surname respect status':-) I'm not just talkin about his 80s stuff, Generation X were pure Butlins punk surely. Mind you over 90% of it was so fair enough on them. Anyway, I don't consider Eno a 'muso'. I find that puzzling. I don't recall him doing too much noodling. He approaches music like he hasn't got a clue where to start, beautifully. And more often than not he doesn't do the coffee table bit. His mercenary jobbing production ventures are something else, but it don't bother me. Canaxis I think is great too but yes, he does get a bit too Tangerine Dream-y at times. EDIT: Oh, and as for Sioux...was at least heartening to see her praise Roxy in the recent doc (Steve Jones spoke about his love for em too). Sort of contradicts her usual 'punk was year zero, all else before was shit' stance. But she is a bit of a precious moo, ain't she? How very un-punk! :-) x
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