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Unsung Forum » PIL Metal Box |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 26, 2008, 12:57
Sep 26, 2008, 12:45
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earthlingfred93 wrote: I agree, To be involved in two of the most groundbreaking albums in rock history within 2 years does indeed hold a bit of luck (the moon was aligned with whatever planet etc), but I also intend to agree with other comments. Would the album have been the same without Lydon's alien wail?. Yes he is not musically inclined but his voice comes from the very soul of primal rock n roll holler. Also, like mentioned earlier it takes some kind of fucked up miscreant to attract the same like minded souls, who would have probably not been given the chance without Lydon's friendship & then current clout within the music industry. I think there's a bit of truth in everyone's personal judgement on this topic, but I think we can all agree it is an historical album..... It's interesting to know how far backwards the music industry has gone in terms of backing groundbreaking artists. To think that this album was released on virgin in 79 and that Branson no matter what people think of him released some seminal albums of the 70's, just goes to show how the major label music industry today is just a pallid limp wristed piece of shit of it's former self along with those fucking mags like MOJO, NME etc... Oh I couldn't agree more. Branson (or those he empowered with his cash) signed all kinds of brilliant artists and allowed them to get on with it. I don't think Island, Charisma and Harvest were as forgiving of commerical failure or as loyal to their people as Virgin were. I would go further and say that rock n roll itself is a "pallid limp wristed piece of shit of it's former self along with those fucking mags like MOJO, NME". I mean have you actually sat down and listened to Muse? To me this is a far worse period than 73-75. OK the cheesecloth shirt and cape brigade ruled the day but there was a lot of other music that was getting mainstream distribution and written about in the press and played on the radio (if sparingly). There are all those records that came out on majors and are reviewed in Unsung for starters. I am not saying major label support and an intelligent music press is the be all and end all but filters are important otherwise a lot of good stuff gets caught up with the other 100,000 albums that will "come out" this year (if only via CD Baby or a web site download) and sell 1000 copies or less. I never liked Lydon's voice but loved all three of the classic line ups that he fronted. Personal musical taste thing. And it is probably Lydon the tabloid star persona that makes me doubly suspicious. By all means go into retirement if you have nothing to say but if that's what is happening then best to disappear rather than stand on the sidelines waving your walking stick around. It's a bit like when Enoch Powell was still claiming an influence over election results long after everyone had stopped listening to him. Another shit analogy but it's one of those gloria mundi things. You have your time and when it has gone. it has gone.
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 12:52
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Just as an addendum to all this Lydon business; does anyone one else find it odd but telling that his solo album - a kind of half-hearted technoish affair as I recall, following "Open Up" with Leftfield (which was great IMO) - seems to suffer an Orwellian like tendency to 'disappear' from his history, even though it's the most recent non-Pistols thing he's done, musically speaking anyway?
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 26, 2008, 13:01
Sep 26, 2008, 12:54
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Moon Cat wrote: Just as an addendum to all this Lydon business; does anyone one else find it odd but telling that his solo album - a kind of half-hearted technoish affair as I recall, following "Open Up" with Leftfield (which was great IMO) - seems to suffer an Orwellian like tendency to 'disappear' from his history, even though it's the most recent non-Pistols thing he's done, musically speaking anyway? Indeed. Loved "Open Up" as much as anything else in that period and I paid good money for that pile of crap of an album in the hope that it would out Prodigy the Prodigy or at least bring some edge to a somewhat smug scene. If I had known he was resopnsible for a lot of the playing I wouldn't have bothered. Oh me of too much faith!
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 12:58
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So it did exist! I was beginning to think I'd imagined it.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 13:02
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Oh it existed. An album so crap they put the big name remixes on the album instead of saving them for the singles. Someone obviously knew that this wasn't going to be a two or more singles album!
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keith a 9576 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 13:31
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The Pistols without Lydon? What, like The Professionals. Try comparing their album to Bollocks. End of story! PS Would have those Time Zone and Leftfield 45's been anywhere near as good without Johnny's input? No!! He's not perfect but he's made some great records. Would you say Magazine gave been great without Devoto? The Teardops without Cope? Take That without Robbie!? ; ) Bands are as good as the sum of their parts, but I think it's wrong to over-look Lydon's contribution and -yes- leadership of PIL. As for him not making new music...as no-one seemed very interested in his solo album I can kinda see why. As for PF being any good without Syd. Cliche or not, I know where my preferences lie. And it's not with bloated old saggy rock! ; )
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elegant chaos 2390 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 13:52
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I quite enjoyed that album actually - better than a lot of the latter day PIL stuff
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elegant chaos 2390 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 13:52
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It was called "Psycho's Path"
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dave clarkson 2988 posts |
Sep 26, 2008, 16:01
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Yeah - Lydon was the figurehead and attitude personified rather than an active musical participant. That's why PIL's music took a slow nosedive following Metal Box. That album wouldn't sound half as good without Levene or Wobble. Attitude will only go so far - Mark E Smith is testiment to that which is why there's lots of peaks and troughs in the Fall's musical output. 8)
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Sep 26, 2008, 19:15
Sep 26, 2008, 17:25
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keith a wrote: The Pistols without Lydon? What, like The Professionals. Try comparing their album to Bollocks. End of story! PS Would have those Time Zone and Leftfield 45's been anywhere near as good without Johnny's input? No!! He's not perfect but he's made some great records. Would you say Magazine gave been great without Devoto? The Teardops without Cope? Take That without Robbie!? ; ) Bands are as good as the sum of their parts, but I think it's wrong to over-look Lydon's contribution and -yes- leadership of PIL. As for him not making new music...as no-one seemed very interested in his solo album I can kinda see why. As for PF being any good without Syd. Cliche or not, I know where my preferences lie. And it's not with bloated old saggy rock! ; ) Surely you aren't deliberately getting the wrong end of the stick to generate a bit of banter. That's my trick! Further up this thread I lavished him with praise for his Rock Star credentials. I also put Metal Box in a notional Post Punk top ten. So clearly I think he's shit, right? Wrong. What I said though is that he is a brilliant front man but not a musical artist. If he had talent and artistry or a true creative bone in his body he would be able to make worthwhile records with a box of kitchen utensils and a stylophone. History shows that he can't get anything of value done without a crack team around him. As it is I imagine he is someone who considers making music only when the advance cheques look enticing enough. Which is fine and dandy, makes him no different from a lot of other highly regarded pop stars, but it does not make him an artist. It makes him the Sex Pistols brand spokesperson. And that's no big deal. there are plenty of acts like that and I know how indie boys like to cling to that musically inept ingenue thing, to the doomed drug casualty thing and also really like people who don't look like they are trying too hard ;-) Put Wobble and Levine in a room what kind of music will they make? Something that sounds not unlike PIL. Cope without Teardrops and Devoto without Magazine would still be the artists they are and I would tend to think that anyone playing with them would bend their musicianship to bring HD and JC's thang to life. The singer wouldn't just ride the prevailing musical storm from one barrage of invective to the next. They know what they want and they er ... know how to get it. Anyway my original point was that I am not sure Metal Box wouldn't be better without having to hear his awful dreary whine all over it but we can both have our PIL cake and eat it too.
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