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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Jan 22, 2008, 17:32
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keith a wrote: They sounded as old as very old boots over here in 1987. I can understand someone who was 15 at the time liking them, but otherwise...c'mon. Well I was 15 going on 16! And more of a radio listener than a music collector at that age. Apettite was a notably "fast, angry and raw" record in terms of commercial radio at the time. The "hard rock" competition was extremely candy-ass (that fuckin Bon Jovi record that was so huge.) In some ways GNR was "grunge before grunge". They may have primed the pump for "punk" to go mainstream in the early 90's. Axl's incoherent rage against everything around him vibes very well with those angsty teenagers (like a more outward-directed Kurt Cobain really -- imagine if Axl had died young and beautiful -- maybe there'd have been no need for Nirvana!) Though I also think that when you boil it down, GNR was a bullshit Hollywood coke-rock band based on the Rolling Stones model of "piss off parents to create a hype-storm of good/bad press which fuels massive sales." They probably got the idea from Motley Crue (another legendary Hollywood fake-rage coke rock outfit.)
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riotmaster 1563 posts |
Jan 22, 2008, 18:09
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yeah but Motley Crue never had any songs. i loved them as a kid too - but can't bear to listen to em now at least AFD still sounds like what it is/was. a great rock n roll record. Hanoi Rocks still sounds good to
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zphage 3378 posts |
Jan 22, 2008, 18:59
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1983 late at night pulled into gas station, while filling up lights go out. Strange. Finish, go to pay. Doors locked. All of sudden lights and Crue's "Shout to the Devil"comes thundering on. Inside the station all these Crue look alikes are writhing around, falling to the ground when the lights go out, bowing with arms up when lights come back on. Shouting along with the song. About 15 men women in there, never noticed me, left the money at the door.
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keith a 9573 posts |
Jan 22, 2008, 19:52
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[quote="Dog 3000"] In some ways GNR was "grunge before grunge". quote] Sorry, Dog. That doesn't wash with me at all. That just sounds like someone desperate to justify what they liked when they were 15!! It's nothing to be ashamed of. I liked Status Quo when I was 15! As for G'n'R....they were just the latest in a long line of naff post-Zep trad rock bands IMO, except like Bon Jovi they were a pop band dressed up in rock clothing. Unfortunately, their pop songs weren't even good pop songs. I only have to hear the opening bars of Paradise City and I'm running to the door. I'd rather listen to Dana! And I honestly can't see any connection between G'n'R and the likes of Nirvana, Tad, etc, other than they played guitars, etc. It's a bit like trying to justify the Bay City Rollers by saying they were punk before punk because they wore straight-ish trousers. Honestly, other than being funny (for no doubt the wrong reasons!) I can find no single redeeming factor in G'n'R whatsover. They were a joke then, they're a joke now, and frankly the longer Axel takes before he unleashes his next pile of poo on an undeserving world, the better as far as I'm concertned. Phew. I feel better now... ; )
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Edited Jan 22, 2008, 23:05
Jan 22, 2008, 22:34
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I am certainly not defending GNR -- they were hardly a "favorite" of mine in the 80's, but their debut was one of the very few current records I had at that time cuz it sounded a whole lot more "alive" than anything else on the radio (mostly I was all over Floyd, Zep, Hendrix, Who & Beatles -- in fact heard GNR cuz listened to a classic rock station that also played a lot of Whitesnake, Bon Jovi et al.) As I keep sayin here, GNR was a lousy Hollywood coke-rock band (they based their moves on the Stones, not Zep -- as filtered through Motley Crue. And I don't like the Stones or Crue either!) But the Guns/Grunge connection is simple: 1) rawer and angrier and dirtier than competing radio pop at the time (it doesn't matter if Big Black was angrier etc., they weren't on the radio), and 2) TEEN ANGST (specifically adolescent male rage vibes.) Axl was very much a Kurt-esque figure; the dudes thought he was the coolest and could relate to his "turmoil", and the girls thought he was sexy with a sensitive side (much more so with Axl I'd say.) I would further posit that Nirvana is ridiculously overrated, and that if Curt had lived the whole thing would be mostly forgotten by now. He might be about as important as "that guy from Third Eye Blind." Conversely, if Axl died in the early 90's, he might be lauded as "Rock's last hope" the way Cobain is today. (But I personally don't think either Axl or Cobain were anything of the kind.)
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keith a 9573 posts |
Jan 23, 2008, 00:31
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Dog 3000 wrote: But the Guns/Grunge connection is simple: 1) rawer and angrier and dirtier than competing radio pop at the time (it doesn't matter if Big Black was angrier etc., they weren't on the radio), and 2) TEEN ANGST (specifically adolescent male rage vibes.) Axl was very much a Kurt-esque figure; the dudes thought he was the coolest and could relate to his "turmoil", and the girls thought he was sexy with a sensitive side (much more so with Axl I'd say.) I would further posit that Nirvana is ridiculously overrated, and that if Curt had lived the whole thing would be mostly forgotten by now. He might be about as important as "that guy from Third Eye Blind." Conversely, if Axl died in the early 90's, he might be lauded as "Rock's last hope" the way Cobain is today. (But I personally don't think either Axl or Cobain were anything of the kind.) G'n'R sounded neither raw, angry or dirty to me. They sounded like a diluted rock/pop band. I was in my late 20's when grunge happened. Those folk - particularly bands like Tad and The Bastards (if I can count them) sounded like they meant it. And whilst I don't think Kurt was rock's last saviour or anything like that, the guy had talent. He'd surely be turning in his grave if he knew he was getting compared to Axl. What would have happened if the other had lived and the other had died is conjecture. Sure Axl would have been lauded cos that's the way the rock business works. But I really don't think that Kurt would be forgotten. His MTV performance showed that in many ways he was just beginning.
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Jan 23, 2008, 02:27
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If you were a young'un during the reign of Motorhead / Iron Maiden / NWOBHM, or the mythical "1977" thing, then I can see that. But that's not the context I heard them in. (Do ya feel old yet?) Of course conjecture is conjecture -- but I seriously doubt Cobain would be lionized if he was still alive (same for Jim Morrison et al) For one thing, he'd have to make another 13+ years worth of records, and I doubt they would have all been as successful/popular/acclaimed as the early work. The "genius" of dying young is, your best work doesn't get diluted. (Though of course Axl's taken a lot longer than 13 years to do a record -- but look where he's at these days!)
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keith a 9573 posts |
Jan 23, 2008, 10:07
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Dog 3000 wrote: If you were a young'un during the reign of Motorhead / Iron Maiden / NWOBHM, or the mythical "1977" thing, then I can see that. But that's not the context I heard them in. (Do ya feel old yet?) Of course conjecture is conjecture -- but I seriously doubt Cobain would be lionized if he was still alive (same for Jim Morrison et al) I hope you're not insinuating that I liked Iron Maiden or NWOBHM? I've chinned people for less! ; ) I may have been young when Iron Maiden and the NWOBHM started, but thankfully was wise enough to know that despite what Sounds told us, it was a pile of poo. I thought it was laughable tbh. I don't include Motorhead in that though. I'm not a major fan or anything, but they're clearly in a different league that to all that poodle rock nonsense. And everyone should have Ace Of Spades in their collection! But otherwise, I think Hendrix, Zep and Sabbath had pretty much said everything that needed to be said in that hard rock genre. PS I'm not saying that Kurt would have been 'lionized' if he was still alive. Course his death had something to do with (as I said re how Axl would be viewed if he'd popped his clogs). Kurt may well have just released his sixth consecutive shit album and be on some Grunge revival tour with a Mark /Arm-less Mudhoney and a version of The Cows with one original member. I just don't think he'd be forgotten which is something very different from saying he'd been lionized.
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anthonyqkiernan 7087 posts |
Jan 23, 2008, 10:28
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Wasn't Appetite for Destruction out between Dinosaur Jr's You're Living All Over Me and Bug? Which both are grunge. In fact, as far as genre's go, it pretty much died with the release of Nevermind.
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Squid Tempest 8763 posts |
Jan 23, 2008, 10:35
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I was trying to stay out of this for some reason, but I can't resist... I'm with you all the way on this Keith. I could never understand what anyone saw in GnR. Derivative tosh with no redeeming features.
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