Nat
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Better late than never...
May 04, 2005, 13:40
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Jane you are a star!! I couldn't have worded everything you have stated better myself!! :o)
>applause<
Nat xx
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alan lake soon
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Re: where's yer ideals
May 04, 2005, 14:00
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<call me a reactionary if you like, but I do think people have a right not to live in fear of intimidation from folk with thuggish attitudes> So do I: trouble is the ASBO legislation seems to be used in a pretty elastic way. One persons 'undesirable' is another persons liberty. It's a badly thought out populist seen-to-be-doing-something measure.
The House of Lords 'reform' really is negligible - they simply haven't done what they said they'd do.
Minimum wage - fair enough. Section 28 - yes, NuLab done good there.
But they've such a massive majority they could've done anything...and they've generally used it to be as authoritarian than Michael Howard ever was and as business-freindly as business would like.
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PMM
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Re: May Druidon
May 04, 2005, 14:20
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I still havent decided between a tactical vote for the lib-dems or a principled spoiled paper.
I used to be an activist in the labour party back in the 80's, and watched bemused as they quietly evicted or closed down the most radical portions. The youth section had a place at the constituency meetings. When they closed the Y.S. down, me and my companion chose to walk out of the meeting. The room was silent, and nobody would look us in the eye. They knew that they were ditching their principles to gain electoral favour even then. To their credit, at least at a constituency level, some of them were uncomfortable about what they were doing, but I can understand people's apathy and disillusionment. No choice, no point...
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anthonyqkiernan
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Re: May Druidon
May 04, 2005, 14:50
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Surely not voting is out democratic right, and we should all have the freedom to express that in whatever way we want?
And, a right to complain whether we haul our asses down to the polling station or not. Even if the reason for not doing so is the rain.
I'd say considerably more right than anyone that managed to hold their nose long enough in 1997 or 2002 to vote for NuLabor has any right to complain about the government we've had since then. And, TBH, even if that vote was purely to kick out hated Tories.
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PMM
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Re: May Druidon
May 04, 2005, 14:56
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Vote labia :)
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Jane
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Re: May Druidon
May 04, 2005, 14:59
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>'Surely not voting is out democratic right, and we should all have the freedom to express that in whatever way we want?'
Well yes, but I'm not sure that voter apathy is the same as people genuinely expressing their right not to vote. They just can't be arsed. And I think that's unforgivable. I waiver on the verge of the Australian system where you HAVE to vote and are fined (heavily) if you don't or have to come up with a pretty damned good reason why your can't.
>'And, a right to complain whether we haul our asses down to the polling station or not. Even if the reason for not doing so is the rain.'
Absolutely not. I feel very strongly that if you fail to engage in the political process in the most direct way possible every election time, you have no right to moan.
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anthonyqkiernan
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Re: May Druidon
May 04, 2005, 15:06
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>>Absolutely not. I feel very strongly that if you fail to engage in the political process in the most direct way possible every election time, you have no right to moan.
Hmmm. But, only if 'engagement' is as you'd proscibe it?
And, an introduction of Ozzie style rules would just result in more of the disenfranchised with criminal records. THAT is something that would have me in the streets with pitchfork and flaming torch.
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amazon
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Re: May Druidon
May 04, 2005, 19:56
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I think they do that in Egypt too. There's only one person to vote for, but still, you're in deep shit if you don't vote.
;o)
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gorseddphungus
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Re: where's yer ideals
May 05, 2005, 00:05
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Yes, and if every labour-voting person fearing the tories would vote with their hearts then Green would win. After all, voting out of fear is ruining the whole world. It is happening in all countries and it keeps the same bag of smug tory, pseudo-tory and proto-tory creeps in power forever and ever.
"i don't think the Tories CAN win. But I do think NuLab want us to THINK the Tories can win, so we'll keep on voting NuLab"
I agree with this entirely.
Politics is stuck and the incestuous group of bastards celebrate their daily shows in parliament with their silly holier-than-thou cackle while the world burns. They WANT, they NEED this apathy to continue, this keeps them all in power. Even if my constituency is a tory stronghold, I will not prostitute my ideals and let the proto-tory or the pseudo-tory think he is getting my support.And in the hypothetical case that labour lost , I would not let them feel that whatever vote they have got they have got from people who *support* what they've done, as that is what you indicate by voting for them. They may have done no more than a couple of decent things (and always in comparison with previous govs) but their keeping blair intact and his association with pro-bush proto-christian shite is an overwhelming act of political perversion. Bliar will win anyway because people are already talking of 'no alternatives' as if there were only three main corporate parties inthe country. If I am going to aim for something high, I'd rather aim for the stars. Enough of this endless political debasing of ideals.
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gorseddphungus
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Re: where's yer ideals
May 05, 2005, 00:24
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It is quite possible blair will re-shape himself again (bowie-style) for the next four years into perhaps a new post-irak 'compassionate' christian. I would like to believe what you say but I find it hard to believe that even labour without blair could ever regain people's trust again. I only respect the few that left the party when they did. Staying in the party has made every one of the ones that stayed an accomplice to the murder in their name. Besides, Labour has already become a new creature. And I fear they have become too big for their boots after so long in power.
I don't see this happening but only if they got a good kicking now would they ever (and Blair mainly) learn the lesson. Anything else is going to be a wink to him. Or at least that's what he is going to think. After all, votes do not come with comments like 'yes, I will vote for you but your a real wanker for supporting bush..'. A vote means full support and 'hope to see you again in power, do it again, will you?'.
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