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Markoid 1621 posts |
Edited Jun 19, 2016, 10:56
Jun 19, 2016, 10:23
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Popel Vooje wrote: Markoid wrote: Popel Vooje wrote: Markoid wrote: Popel Vooje wrote: Markoid wrote: Popel Vooje wrote: Captain Starlet wrote: As someone who runs a mental health campaign (albeit small) the need for some to label non-Muslim people who do this as mentally ill is completely abhorrent! If he was mentally ill the likelihood is is that any GP would have picked up on it, family and friends would have picked up on it, you can't hide it all of the time. There's numerous pictures online showing him at bf demos showing he was a well known regular, and with his disgusting comment in court today this eradicates any call that there's mental health issues and that he's an extremist plain and simple! Thing is if the guy looked like a Muslim people wouldn't even be thinking mental health but just that that person was a religious extremist and I see no reason to suggest otherwise here! I think he was both a terrorist and mentally ill. Sometimes mentally disturbed people attach themselves to screwed-up ideologies in order to legitimise their actions, and it's a sad fact that the Internet has most likely contributed to this. I have come across a couple of reports in which his brother confirms he has a history of OCD and depression - but given how underfunded mental health services are in the UK, I find it easy to believe he could have slipped under the radar. Nonetheless, this was still a hate crime, and deserves to be treated as such. What you have to remember though is that the mad (or the mentally ill) don't usually go around killing folks. That dangerous bull is left to the press, warmongerers, arms traders, the media and governments. Of course not. I know enough about mental illness to know that it's far more common for the afflicted to be victims of violence rather than perpetrators of it. I'm not trying to imply that this murder was part of a general pattern - but looking at the specifics of this case, it appears undeniable that the killer did have a history of problems in that area. Another report I've just read claimed he'd visited a drop-in place called the Birstall Wellbeing Centre looking for alternative remedies/therapies for his depression because the meds he'd been prescribed weren't working. this was the night before the murder. The woman who saw him told him to come back next day for an appointment but he never did. We basically know nothing at the moment. I work in forensic psychiatry, and when I find out the facts, I will tell yous lot, bugger all! I'm allowed to speculate though, as it is my job. Jesus, you sound like the Daily Mail! Rubbish. Plenty of information about the killer has been leaking out over the last two days, just google "Thomas Mair mental illness" and a welter of articles on the subject come to the surface almost immediately, and not just from the right-wing press either. Not only that, the implication that you;re allowed to speculate on this issue because you work in mental health whilst the rest of us should just keep our mouths shut reeks of professional arrogance to me. I'm disappointed, as reading your previous posts made me this that you were better than that. Anyways, I'm bowing out of this for now as I'm off on holiday to Greece. Should be a welcome respite - probably less tension, unrest and kneejerk anger there than there is in the UK at the moment, judging by the contents of this thread. Enjoy your referendum, and whatever you do, don't put yourself out by considering any information that doesn't fit with your pre-conceived ideology. I don't have a pre-conceived ideology. It's based on fact. Sometimes that is based on what madness is. I sure as hell know more about it than you, or the press. You know fuck all about the law. Madness is OK, but severe madness is not. And it's only a minority. So there! Fine. I bow to your superior wisdom, Mr Omniscient. I promise I will never, ever hold an opinion on mental health again without consulting you first, despite - as I've posted below - that I've suffered from it for 26 years. The point is that everybody has mental health in all dimensions, like physical health. It's a spectrum, not a flipping label! No need to be sarcastic either. I have the odd depressive element in me also. A very bi-polar girlfriend in the past. I know what it is dude. I've been described as probably the best mental health nurse out there. I'll take that accolade. Not easy though! I work in the NHS, so I'm legally obliged to keep my mouth shut on certain aspects of confidentiality. "I could tell you some stories which would make you cry"
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Markoid 1621 posts |
Jun 19, 2016, 11:09
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None of our arguments brings back a life.
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Popel Vooje 5373 posts |
Jun 19, 2016, 11:46
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Markoid wrote: None of our arguments brings back a life. No - of course I agree with you there. I didn't come here looking for an argument, mind, but I'm happy to agree to differ if you are.
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Markoid 1621 posts |
Edited Jun 19, 2016, 15:41
Jun 19, 2016, 12:05
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Popel Vooje wrote: Markoid wrote: None of our arguments brings back a life. No - of course I agree with you there. I didn't come here looking for an argument, mind, but I'm happy to agree to differ if you are. I'm just listening to The Kinks and minding my own business. I do shout out for folks with mental health problems. But a cunt is a cunt, all said and done. I stop people commiting more crimes. It's a very complex process which sometimes takes years to hone. I do a good job, I think in protecting the public. I also do a good job in helping the casual mentally ill person with huge problems and also getting rid of stigma via rehabilitation and recovery.
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Jun 19, 2016, 13:27
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Here's the problem I have. People try to rationalise things like this and try to come up for some reason/justification to why this person committed the crime. Sometimes people are just bad people! Mentally ill people are not bad people, they're just ill! There's a huge difference there. If this person was of Muslim appearance would this have even been mentioned? In recent history clearly not, they're just extremists and terrorists, and that's the case here as well. A huge issue here is the stigma it creates towards people who are actually mentally ill. Remember that bloke who flew that plane into a mountain? (sorry refuse to be bothered to remember his name) The stigma towards mentally ill people was horrific, and this is something many people fail to take into consideration when these things happen, as long as they've got an excuse to blame it on. There was an article about britain first a while ago, think it was in the Huff Post saying how much they create a danger to British life, this was a tragedy waiting to happen, people join these so-called 'christian' cults, they get indoctrinated and this sort of thing is an inevitability! Sorry, but I'm not going to let someone off the hook for murder just because they're a twat!
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Jun 19, 2016, 13:30
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I agree with most of that, however in the history of mental illness, especially depression not one person has committed an atrocity like this. It's hard enough getting out of bed let alone finding the energy to do something like this!
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Jun 19, 2016, 14:13
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Enjoy your hols, been thinking about a trip to Greece, apparently quite cheap at the mo
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wychburyman 951 posts |
Jun 20, 2016, 22:23
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moss wrote: She was obviously a lovely woman, very public spirited and the country seems shocked at her death. The fact of the killer being right-winged nationalistic scum and mentally unstable is yet to be verified, probably more to do with him being a loner. We can only weep for the loss of such a special person, and the loss of a mother and wife for her family. I think the "loner" jibe is well out of order. There are plenty of loners out there who would never dream of such an atrocity. I'd include me in that as well
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moss 2897 posts |
Jun 21, 2016, 12:44
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wychburyman wrote: moss wrote: She was obviously a lovely woman, very public spirited and the country seems shocked at her death. The fact of the killer being right-winged nationalistic scum and mentally unstable is yet to be verified, probably more to do with him being a loner. We can only weep for the loss of such a special person, and the loss of a mother and wife for her family. I think the "loner" jibe is well out of order. There are plenty of loners out there who would never dream of such an atrocity. I'd include me in that as well True, I should not have written that, so I am happy to apologise, but we were all angry at this terrible killing and the whole story had not come out. As for the word loser's definition, I don't have any trouble with it, we all use it quite frequently in life to describe ourself or others, it is the subjective meaning to the person receiving that sometimes goes astray. Definition of a loser; "a person who is disadvantaged by a particular situation or course of action".
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tjj 3606 posts |
Jun 21, 2016, 20:35
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Moss, don't worry about what you wrote - it was clearly heartfelt, like us all looking for some logic in it all (I thought you said 'loner' not 'loser'). The sadness of her murder is beyond words, so impossible to find the right ones. Her husband was interviewed today -very movingly and with great dignity. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36592122
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