sanshee
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Re: The French banning the niqab/burka
Apr 12, 2011, 15:30
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Hehe, as Toni says, how to agree with the French when you really really want to...
As much as I've made my own feelings clear on this, it's a 'bit' reassuring that some women have gotten all militant in the matter, and decided to protest. It's a bit 'real', you know?
x
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MrsSevenrealm
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Re: The French banning the niqab/burka
Apr 13, 2011, 13:27
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I've just written a lengthy post on this subject, and then chickened out.
So you'll never know!!
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Squid Tempest
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Re: The French banning the niqab/burka
Apr 13, 2011, 15:10
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If I dress like my avatar in France, will I get nicked?
*sorry, this is a bit flippant. I know it is quite a serious subject. I'm not sure how I stand on it TBH. Hate the oppresive idea of the veil, hate the oppresive idea of banning an item of clothing :-\
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Moon Cat
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Edited Apr 13, 2011, 16:49
Re: The French banning the niqab/burka
Apr 13, 2011, 16:49
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Dont like the burka and what it represents, or at least what it represents from my perspective. But I'm more against the notion of banning it. Choice and expression are things of value even if what they represent is pretty abhorrent to one's values. It's the classic liberal conflict. A lady wearing a burka doesn't really do any harm apart perhaps to one's sensibilities. Let's face it, unless you go and ask every individiual lady why she's wearing one, the practical and sober assesment must be that she is practicing her faith and lifestyle in a way she desires.
Shell-suits and their 21st Century equivalent though are genuine things of malignant evil and should be banned ;^)
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sanshee
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Re: The French banning the niqab/burka
Apr 13, 2011, 16:57
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Squid Tempest wrote:
If I dress like my avatar in France, will I get nicked?
*sorry, this is a bit flippant. I know it is quite a serious subject. I'm not sure how I stand on it TBH. Hate the oppresive idea of the veil, hate the oppresive idea of banning an item of clothing
Yes, get ye on both fronts.
At heart, I know I can't ever communicate with anyone whose smile/lack of I can't see, and at worst something tells me that's part of 'the point'.
It's 'socially' impossible, right?
We all set our stall out by our expression wherever we go.
x
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Sin Agog
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Edited Apr 14, 2011, 03:16
Re: The French banning the niqab/burka
Apr 13, 2011, 17:20
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After the increasing number of incidents of schoolchildren going home with the wrong mothers by mistake, I say it's probably a good thing... ;)
Considering what a vast minority of Muslim women in Belgium and France actually wear burqas (a fraction of a percentage), it's obviously more of a political/racial statement than a law that has a practical effect on too many people, which makes it even worse. It's just an excuse to distinguish Muslims as being persona non grata in the eyes of the government (even if they're one of the 99% of female Muslims abroad who don't ever wear burqas). Europe may be ahead of America in many regards, but there's still a distinct tang of racism to be found in a lot of supposedly progressive countries. Prob because most countries here don't have the same mongrel roots as the U.S. I doubt most of us would elect Obamas of our own.
Mr. Cope's opinions on this matter are practically one of the only things we disagree with (oh, and I like Can's Future Days quite a bit more than him, too).
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Squid Tempest
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Re: The French banning the niqab/burka
Apr 13, 2011, 22:32
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sanshee wrote: Squid Tempest wrote:
If I dress like my avatar in France, will I get nicked?
*sorry, this is a bit flippant. I know it is quite a serious subject. I'm not sure how I stand on it TBH. Hate the oppresive idea of the veil, hate the oppresive idea of banning an item of clothing
Yes, get ye on both fronts.
At heart, I know I can't ever communicate with anyone whose smile/lack of I can't see, and at worst something tells me that's part of 'the point'.
It's 'socially' impossible, right?
We all set our stall out by our expression wherever we go.
x
Is it like banning hoodies in shopping malls, only on a bigger scale? Again, not a serious comparison, but when it occurred to me it did make me think. If you take the religious aspect out of it, it is quite a similar thing!
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handofdave
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Re: The French banning the niqab/burka
Apr 14, 2011, 01:40
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Hooray! The French government have just found a new way to alienate their Muslim population with a democratically dubious edict, which will probably lead to more social stratification, radical recruitment, and general unpleasantness.
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handofdave
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Re: The French banning the niqab/burka
Apr 14, 2011, 01:44
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Sin Agog wrote: because most countries here don't have the same mongrel roots as the U.S. I doubt most of us would elect Obamas of our own.
Sometimes the US is called 'Babylon'... I think that it's always been a boon to this continent that it's been such a mashup. Musically, especially... if there were one thing about my place o'birth I feel strongly about it's that it's been an amazing cauldron of expression.
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sanshee
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Edited Apr 14, 2011, 11:36
Re: The French banning the niqab/burka
Apr 14, 2011, 11:36
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Suppose I'd have to read into the 'given' reasons 'why' this ban has been put into place, even if it's loaded with lies.
Most likely as some suggest it is a way to placate certain factions, but I'd only feel like digging my heels in there if the 'ban' extended to head coverings/mosques etc.
However, someone saying they feel queasy about the whole face covering issue based purely on 'social' reasons shouldn't have any sensible person accuse them of 'racism'. It's a bit lazy, and I think we should extend the debate beyond that, if we're to be honest.
I do wonder how a society goes about it business like that anyway, with around half of it confined to a certain anonymity.
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