shanshee_allures
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Re: older mums - just say no!
Nov 01, 2006, 12:44
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Yes, I am a mother too, and it feels like the most natural thing ever because guess what - it is.
It's good that women now have a choice not to be stoned to death for not having children or for having too many (applies only to MOST of the world, I know). I am always glad to hear that women make conscious decisions not to be mums and stick to it when they do (I don't think men ever make a conscious decision to be dads, but as in my case anyway, turn out to love what they do). There are too many bastardparents out there and it's heartbreaking to see.
But I don't understand all this whingeing about paying for other folk's kids. There are always others who partake in something that we don't but have to pay for, and that is what our taxes are for. You'd have to completely exclude yourself from society if you didn't want to be a 'burden' to anyone else.
As for political correctness, who will ever flat out force Africa to curb the never ending trend in babies dying of starvation before they reach six months by using bloody condoms full stop for a year or two, until things reach a better state than they're in right now? How many resources do babes who have no chance of survival take up? That makes sense, right? Or is it just us opulent, educated Westerners who should think about that one, as we find them too ignorant to take it on board?
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Merrick
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Re: older mums - just say no!
Nov 02, 2006, 12:47
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I love that 'but we've got to leave some people like us behind' excuse for having kids!
There's a presumption that they'll turn out to be exactly what you intend them to be. How many people do you know who can give an honest and uncensored account of themselves to their parents? How many people do you know whose parents don't understand them at all? In the answers to those questions you have the reasons why the Mini-Me argument is nonsense.
And that's without including the fact that you can have a lot of influence on people without being their biological parents.
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Merrick
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Re: older mums - just say no!
Nov 02, 2006, 12:57
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Yes, maternity is as natural a thing for a woman as there is.
But if that's a reason to do it, you've gotta stick by the 'natural' thing the whole way down the line and refuse modern levels of health care and nutrition.
We understand the principle with our cats and dogs. If we give them a guaranteed food supply and astonishing vetinary attention then there will rapidly be too many of them. So we have a choice of three options; have that population explosion, leave them to fend for themselves, or get them neutered.
Clearly the kindest and most humane is the neutering. Why don't we understand the same principle for humans?
Shanshee, you're right that the present human population explosion is centred on poorer countries. Thing is, I sympathise with them. If you had no pension, no health service, you'd rely on family to get you through any illness and your old age. Factor in high infant mortality and you're gonna be popping them out like nobody's business to make sure some of them will still be around when you're too doddery to work the fields.
If they knew for certain their kids wouldn't make it and there was going to be prolonged drought and civil war for the next ten years so any kids would die, then your argument would hold up. If we can presume a lack of such psychic powers, then the parents in such regions are thinking their kids might well survive, and thus be able to deliver geriatric care.
Also, it's a resource consumption thing. Two children here consume the same as half a dozen families of Bangladeshis. The last thing the world needs now is more Western consumers.
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Daminxa
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Re: older mums - just say no!
Nov 02, 2006, 16:11
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I don't mean to get personal, but I trust you've done the responsible thing and had the snip then? ;-)
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Mrs Ahab
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Re: older mums - just say no!
Nov 02, 2006, 16:35
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sometimes you shock me the level on which you appear to think women make choices, i expect having children was also one of those main bases, however to acheive them all it had to come last on the list, thats pragmatic to me, not depressing at all, jeez. but your right it is not a right, its a choice.
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Merrick
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Re: older mums - just say no!
Nov 02, 2006, 17:33
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Yeah. One of the best things I've ever done. Less than 5 mins, no pain, and the sense of weight off my shoulders was incredible. It's like there was a disease to which I'm immune but I was carrying the virus, and somehow my blood was magically cleaned and I can't infect anyone now.
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Stormy
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Edited Nov 02, 2006, 17:50
Re: older mums - just say no!
Nov 02, 2006, 17:48
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Well, I am an older mum just having had my second son "Torr" (who is 10 months now)at 37 years old :0) And I am glad I have lived my life a bit before I had children, as I feel I can impart the wisdom I now have from all the things I have done, and from the vegan ethical lifestyle I lead. I had my first son when I was just about to turn 30 :0)
If I had my children earlier in my 20's then I think the parental choices I have made as an older mother would have been non existant eg: I don't smack, I don't vaccinate from having an informed choice, I bring my children up vegan, and I believe in positive and natural/eco as possible parenting!!
So all this and more makes me a proud and happier older mum with happier and amazing children!!
Also we are living longer these days and my parents are still alive and active in their 70's ... it is only distance that keeps us apart, as they live in Sussex and I live in Cumbria!!
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Daminxa
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Re: older mums - just say no!
Nov 02, 2006, 17:53
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Less than five minutes? The vet took longer than that to castrate my dog!
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Cleira
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Re: older mums - just say no!
Nov 02, 2006, 20:26
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Ha! That's what the drs say - only five minutes, you'll just feel a little prick, maybe a touch of soreness etc
Well, unless my husband was exaggerating to gain more sympathy (and that may very well have been the case) I think that sort of statement is a mite underrating the experience.
Anyway, it gave him plenty of oppurtunity to explore a range of painkilling drugs and to enjoy a large amount of sympathy over an extended period of many many days.
But it is brill now though ;-p
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Daminxa
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Re: older mums - just say no!
Nov 02, 2006, 21:10
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Mmmm; see now I'm thinking - I had a coil fitted, which was extremely horrid; not planning on doing it again so when that wears out; husbo's gonna be dispatched off to the hozzie to get snipped I reckon! ;-D
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